The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

[theVOID]

It is impossible to verify this truth VOID. It is not verifiable. You believe in stuff you can empirically evidence. No thought required. That's fine, you just have no right to demand other have to stop thinking.

It's not verifiable because it isn't true, you can't test for the physical presence of an imaginary man!

[Eilonnwy]

It is impossible to verify this truth VOID. It is not verifiable. You believe in stuff you can empirically evidence. No thought required. That's fine, you just have no right to demand other have to stop thinking.

It is truly amazing how you twist and turn to try and stick by your position, but alas you contradict yourself. You also contradict reason.

You keep on using synonyms and then contradict the synonyms and pretend there's some important distinction that makes your words true.

Insisting on empirical evidence is the very essence of a thinking mind. You say faith is reasonable and we deny reason by wanting evidence. Once again, insisting empirical evidence is the essence of a reasonable mind. We "reason" what's true by demanding evidence before coming to a conclusion. All you ever do is insisted on what's true because you think it's true and can give no valid reasoning besides wiggling around and throwing up the faith card when it's convenient.

[Violet]

Reason and faith are incompatible. WHen you pretend to mix the two: you get scientology. ^_^

Christianity presents itself as science, but it's not. The difference in time between Christianity and modern science is 1500+ years... there is no possibility of there being modern science in the bible. o.o

[fr0d0]

There can be no reason for faith. That's an atheistic red herring. There is absolute reasoning for belief in God tho'.

Christian Science (another cult) presents itself as science. LOL @ the Scientology line

Christianity has always been about the human condition and never ever about science.

[Violet]

Exactly, and the human condition is irrationality, therefore Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with logic The absolute 'reasoning' is really just an absolute conviction in the assertion of an assumption. That is faith... and faith is to have absolute confidence in something. To have absolute confidence, you are committing a logical fallacy of circular logic, which has no logical basis.

So while it comes off as reasoning: "I do it because i do it, why? because i do it.", it is not reasoning. Try to avoid mistaking faith for reasoning

[fr0d0]

Beautifully written Sae

Exactly, and the human condition is irrationality, therefore Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with logic

Care to elaborate on the human condition? (and what about NOMA - u never did answer that??)

The absolute 'reasoning' is really just an absolute conviction in the assertion of an assumption. That is faith... and faith is to have absolute confidence in something. To have absolute confidence, you are committing a logical fallacy of circular logic, which has no logical basis.

I'd like to move on... I don't think faith is absolute confidence, if only that were possible!
Faith is certainly the conviction in the assertion of an assumption. "absolute reasoning" I think is a gross exaggeration (I hope I didn't say that! ).

So while it comes off as reasoning: "I do it because i do it, why? because i do it.", it is not reasoning. Try to avoid mistaking faith for reasoning

I never make blind statements like that. Faith is almost the opposite of reasoning, but behind faith... now there's a different matter.

[amw79]

though as fr0do says above - "With faith it makes sense" - you just can't argue with a statement like that!!!

That is to crassly and superficially dismiss it.

Apologies, it was rather crass (but no less valid).

When trying to justify such an obvious paradox as the notion of the holy trinity, and then resorting to "with faith it makes sense", belittles the entire concept of debate and argument. By using this, anyone could apparently justify anything without either evidence, or more crucially - explanation.

It simply says "I understand this as I have faith. You don't have faith, so couldn't possibly understand"

This, to me, is immense arrogance, and singals the end of any possible debate - and as such - I stated "you just can't argue with a statement like that!!!"

That was merely a sidenote to the post, which was more generally about the trinity, and Jesus punturing a hole in the "non-temporal" god concept.

You can argue that god (in a deistic notion) is outside time, and outside space all day long, as its entirely unfalsifible, and unproveable. However if Jesus literally is god, as per the trinity concept - he clearly is temporal and in this universe.

[Edwardo Piet]

"absolute reasoning" I think is a gross exaggeration (I hope I didn't say that! ).

You did, do you like contradicting yourself?

:

There can be no reason for faith. That's an atheistic red herring. There is absolute reasoning for belief in God tho'.

(my bolding).

EvF

[fr0d0]

That was merely a sidenote to the post, which was more generally about the trinity, and Jesus punturing a hole in the "non-temporal" god concept.

You can argue that god (in a deistic notion) is outside time, and outside space all day long, as its entirely unfalsifible, and unproveable. However if Jesus literally is god, as per the trinity concept - he clearly is temporal and in this universe.

But that is the 100% man part

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There can be no reason for faith. That's an atheistic red herring. There is absolute reasoning for belief in God tho'.

(my bolding).

Thanks Evie

Not absolute reasoning for faith. I feel redeemed

[amw79]

But that is the 100% man part

Aah, so god is non-temporal and transcendent, lying outside the physical universe, and out of reach of testability or evidence; but is also simultaneously 100% man in the form of Jesus, and as such is temporal and within the universe.

Anyone who can seriously entertain such a mess of internal contradiction, really must have left their brain at the front door.

You're quite right fr0do, I'm sure that "with faith, it makes sense" as you can decide to ignore the contradictions and just believe it 'because it is so'.