Pope Francis defends atheists

[rexbeccarox]

I bailed? You're the one who said the discussion had officially ended! YOU evaded the discussion, but I bailed?!?

[Drich]

Indeed you did. When you found out, or rather when the simple fact that God view those who deny Him (atheist) as lost the quote in John 3 must have started to make a whole lot more sense. But you choose to deny the fact that you were lost. You even went so far as to try and dismiss the whole bible as being invalid to an atheist.. (Which makes no sense because you were demanding to know what God had done for atheist, and that can only be assertion through the bible you no longer seemed to be interested in.) so rather than play a whole round of cat and mouse I moved to cut to the end. You ended the conversation when you denied God's assessment that either one Denys God and is lost to Him, or That person is saved in God's sight because that person has accepted Him. If you don't want to accept the parameters in which your own question is framed then you whole query becomes invalid. You can't have it both Ms carrot. If you are not lost in God's sight then it means you have accepted Jesus Christ as you Lord and Savior. If you claim the title of atheist then that means you have denied God. If you deny God by his own words you are lost. If you say you are not lost, but have not accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, then you have ended the conversation I am participating in, and started a new one based your own idea of how religion and a non god work. As I have no interest discussing you version of Christianity I simply let you know that by forcing your version of Christianity into the discussion you have ended the orginal discussion, and started a new one that I will/can not be apart of.

[rexbeccarox]

My version? YOU asked "does the Atheist [sic] accept what has been done for Him [sic]?"

I asked what has been done, and you quoted the Bible. I then pointed out that most atheists don't accept the Bible. What on earth does that have to do with MY version of Christianity?

I didn't make the parameters, you did. I'm asking if you have any other proof that anything has been done for "the Atheist" and you are evading the question again.

[KichigaiNeko]

Sick'em rex

[Minimalist]

John 3 must have started to make a whole lot more sense.

No more so than the rest of "john" which is nonsensical even when compared to the other 3 turds floating in your xtian toilet.

[Ryantology]

...but your buddy satan has never done this?

I don't know. Has he? At best, it's one word against another, and for someone who doesn't take sides in this cosmic bitchfit, there's really no compelling reason to accept the Bible's version of Satan's character as accurate. Why would God give a fair and impartial account?

Even if an impartial observer takes the Bible at face value, there's still the problem that you can only believe, as it believes, if you also believe that disobedience to authority is a more profound crime than mass murder and rape and slavery and all of God's other favorite OT activities... because the Bible only ever depicts Satan as doing nothing more than undermining God's will. To a mindless slave of authority, this certainly warrants Satan being the Bible's supervillain. To the rest of us, it is, at worst, two bad guys fighting for the right to be the biggest bad. It is exactly the same situation in Animal Farm, when two pigs compete for supremacy, the more violent and malicious Napoleon exiles the more progressive Snowball, accusing him of every crime he can think of and making him the official Satan analogue of Animal Farm... and all he was truly guilty of was thinking independently. Of course, in the end, some of animals realize that Napoleon is no different from the evils he preached against.

The rest just keep on believing Comrade Napoleon is always right.

[Drich]

My version? YOU asked "does the Atheist [sic] accept what has been done for Him [sic]?"

I asked what has been done, and you quoted the Bible.

Because we are speaking of the God of the bible are we not? If we are, and you truly want to know what the God of the bible has done for you. then you are bound to the bible for your answer. Whether you believe in the bible or not is not revelant. If you ask about X, and the only answers or information on X is in the Book of Y then to get an accurate answer about the question you asked about X, you are bound to the book of Y to get an truthful answer. Otherwise we wander into the realm of fan fiction.

I then pointed out that most atheists don't accept the Bible. What on earth does that have to do with MY version of Christianity?

Because you want an answer to a question about the God of the bible that is not tied to the bible to define the expressed nature of God. If we can not use the bible as a reference point, then we are not longer speaking of the God of the bible, we are speaking of a god of your own creation and or of a religion that is made to fit this god. To which I can not comment as I do not know the ins and outs of your version of God or christianity.

I didn't make the parameters, you did.

IF we are still working in my parameters then know your question has been completely answered by John 3.
Because once again God identifies all non-believers as 'lost.' As Atheist by defination are non believers, they to God are considered lost. If one is lost then they fall under the catagory of the "who so ever" of Jhn 3:16. It is this "who so ever" that God gave His only Son for, so they may have eternal life.

So what has God done for the Atheist/The Lost? He Gave His only Son that Who So Ever Believes in Him shall not perish in Hell but have eternal life.

I'm asking if you have any other proof that anything has been done for "the Atheist" and you are evading the question again.

I am not evading anything. You simply do not seem to understand the boarders and limit in which I can truthfully answer your question.

[downbeatplumb]

Indeed you did. When you found out, or rather when the simple fact that God view those who deny Him (atheist) as lost

No it doesn't it thinks were interesting, who wants to spend eternity with a bunch of toady yes men

See I can make shit up too.

[Drich]

...but your buddy satan has never done this?

I don't know. Has he? At best, it's one word against another, and for someone who doesn't take sides in this cosmic bitchfit, there's really no compelling reason to accept the Bible's version of Satan's character as accurate. Why would God give a fair and impartial account?

Even if an impartial observer takes the Bible at face value, there's still the problem that you can only believe, as it believes, if you also believe that disobedience to authority is a more profound crime than mass murder and rape and slavery and all of God's other favorite OT activities... because the Bible only ever depicts Satan as doing nothing more than undermining God's will. To a mindless slave of authority, this certainly warrants Satan being the Bible's supervillain. To the rest of us, it is, at worst, two bad guys fighting for the right to be the biggest bad. It is exactly the same situation in Animal Farm, when two pigs compete for supremacy, the more violent and malicious Napoleon exiles the more progressive Snowball, accusing him of every crime he can think of and making him the official Satan analogue of Animal Farm... and all he was truly guilty of was thinking independently. Of course, in the end, some of animals realize that Napoleon is no different from the evils he preached against.

The rest just keep on believing Comrade Napoleon is always right.

another rebuttal that did not post. Will have to rewrite when I get home.

[Gabriel Syme]

All of your posts (to theists) are not an effort to challenge them or engage with them, but to shore up your own atheism - hence "defence mechanism".

All of my posts to theists are to make fun of them. "Engaging" idiots who believe in ancient fairy tales is a rather pointless exercise. One day, you will either wise up and figure out how badly you have been conned by a bunch of power-hungry motherfuckers or not. Your choice.

My "atheism" needs no shoring up. Your god is just as fucking stupid as every other god invented by the mind of man.

In the meanwhile you might ask yourself why you show up at an atheist forum? Are you here to preach about your bullshit or do you just enjoy being abused? Does it make you feel like a martyr? ( P.S. most of the martyr stories are bullshit, too.)

I find it interesting to engage with you - humourous in fact - you betray much about yourself as a person.

You attempt to ridicule people, but only succeed in framing yourself as a child.

You speak the way you do because you want to feel powerful, you want to feel clever / funny.

This is because you are not powerful, or clever, or funny, in real life, isnt it? You probably have quiet a sad, empty life away from the keyboard, dont you?

You resent my presence here, not because I have a different world view to you, but because I show you up for what you are. You also resent me because I demonstrate that your cheap caricature of religious people - the one you like to regularly attack as a straw man - is untrue.

Far from being credulous, or simple, it is resoundingly clear that I am significantly more intelligent than you, and significantly better informed about the world than you.

Accordingly, you are unable to engage with me on any level other than at your most infantile.

I think you are a sad, tragic character. I dont bear you any ill will however; on the contrary, I sincerely hope you can repair your life and personality.

However, you will definitely need to drop the bile, (i.e. your defence / coping mechanism), in order to see what problems in your life have to be addressed - it seems to me that your perma-rages obscure the root of your difficulties.

Your use religion as a vent for your anger and bile, which comes from your dissatisfaction with your life. Ironically, in this sense you "need" religion.

You are pig-ignorant and angry at the world - which is not an uncommon personality among atheists - your prefer to attack religion (which should be an irrelevance to you) because you dare not confront your real problems, whatever they may be.