Ok.....So you killed off Religion...

[ronedee]

A difficult question. My morals come from my heart, when a man is hitting a woman I intervene not because I wonder if it will make god happy that I'm doing the right thing.

Considering abuse is allowed in the bible
(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

I'd say I'm even more moral than the religious are. The religious program of celestial kudos for good and eternal damnation for bad has been hindering mankind for quite long enough. I hope that when there is nothing to cast judgement upon us, God or man, then man will understand that it is by our will alone that we do good things. One could argue that the social strife (In India, the Hindu caste system organises division of labour and power in human society. It is a system of social stratification) religion has placed upon man is the sole reason man is corrupt. Unfortunately going back to the time when the Earth was bountiful for all without borders means a lot of people are going to die, but they will die from the hands of the religious (The Inquisition was a group of institutions within the judicial system of the Roman Catholic Church whose aim was to combat heresy, hundreds of thousands were tortured and then killed.)

Ok frosty! So all morals come from your heart, when helping your neighbor to fight off her wife beating husband?

And the 1.2 BILLION Catholics are all bad people hanging on every line of the OT so they can become your neighbors 2nd husband someday?

See how ridiculous your argument sounds? Neeeeext!

[max-greece]

I think the idea that we behave morally purely out of fear of some divine retribution is rather bleak. On an individual level it certainly doesn't apply - I haven't pillaged or murdered in weeks.

On the flip-side the thing we can be certain of is that certain crimes would disappear off the map. Suicide bombing is an obvious candidate - I am sure you can list others.

I would conclude that if there is genuinely no god and we then "lose it" completely with society breaking down into random chaos then one has to ask if we, as a species, deserve to survive at all.

I should stress I do not see "losing it" as a real probability, maybe not even a possibility. No God means morality innate.

On a personal level the idea that we may one day prove that God (Judaic) does exist is infinitely more depressing to me.

[Whateverist]

What would happen if we "absolutely knew", without a doubt this was it? When dead, we're gone?

You should know that science could never show that gods don't exist. Unless religious people insist on reading their holy books as empirical reference books, you're safe. Let the masses enjoy their religious based moral compasses. But they really need to keep their kingdom of heaven out of politics.

[ronedee]

I'm thinking that it wouldn't be a pretty picture. Why? Because only "survival" would be of importance. I'm not saying that everyone would subscribe to this...but an awful lot would!

As long as we are in this amazing fantasy I would like to think that mankind's problems with survival of the fittest are not applicable, money and enemies and gods will not be there to cloud our brains. In the event that we do end up still worshipping material goods then your argument is invalid because there would still be a god. Perhaps god is the reason for immorality? In the event that we are still warring with those enemies across the river than there would definitely be a reason for judgement on "bad" actions, but I don't believe we would need a god to be our compass, that is one of the most horrendous thing religion has done to us - removed our individuality. You are not being controlled by a master plan, you are just you. A system of law would have to be our compass, void of anything religious.

No Scherrrlock! It's "absolutely not/knowing" that keeps it in check!

And you...is well....You! Next time you're in a building and someone yells fire...lets see how you fare holding the audience back!

Whats in that pipe your smokin' anyway?

[LeoVonFrost]

And the 1.2 BILLION Catholics are all bad people hanging on every line of the OT so they can become your neighbors 2nd husband someday?

Yeah, you're right, nobody believes the crazy things in that book. /eye-roll /sarcasm /troll-4-dinner /and-i-helped /thread

[ronedee]

What would happen if we "absolutely knew", without a doubt this was it? When dead, we're gone?

You should know that science could never show that gods don't exist. Unless religious people insist on reading their holy books as empirical reference books, you're safe. Let the masses enjoy their religious based moral compasses. But they really need to keep their kingdom of heaven out of politics.

Just hypothetical...food for thoughtsall. But, you are seeing the point?

---

I think the idea that we behave morally purely out of fear of some divine retribution is rather bleak. On an individual level it certainly doesn't apply - I haven't pillaged or murdered in weeks.

On the flip-side the thing we can be certain of is that certain crimes would disappear off the map. Suicide bombing is an obvious candidate - I am sure you can list others.

I would conclude that if there is genuinely no god and we then "lose it" completely with society breaking down into random chaos then one has to ask if we, as a species, deserve to survive at all.

I should stress I do not see "losing it" as a real probability, maybe not even a possibility. No God means morality innate.

On a personal level the idea that we may one day prove that God (Judaic) does exist is infinitely more depressing to me.

They would be bombing for different things like snickers bars or pagan road races...etc.

On a personal note...would another God entice you?

[Esquilax]

...hypothetically of course!

Maybe 50 or 60 years from now when science finally proves that all of you are right and there is no God..... and religion dies out for you!

Where as a society will the moral compass come from? Considering of course you even want a moral society?

Will it be: Laws? hmmmm...who will instill these laws? Teachers? Police? Parents? Military? Government Agencies?

Will it be community groups? Say like: Acorn? YMC...whoops....Boys & Girls & Gay clubs? Planned Parenthood? The cities or states?

Or will it be just every "being" for themselves, and NO LAWS? Total FREEDOM! WOW!! Freedom to do ANYTHING!! And no one to tell you differently!

I'm just wondering what it will be like in "Your Perfect World" w/o God & religion?

Let us see where the moral compass points in a world w/o God?

Uh... dude? In a world where there's no god, there would always have been no god; our moral compass would have been coming from people all along. Nothing would change. You wouldn't suddenly have raping in the streets or anything; people would conduct themselves the same way they always did, and the self righteous hucksters that abused religion for their own ends would just find another racket.

[max-greece]

They would be bombing for different things like snickers bars or pagan road races...etc.

On a personal note...would another God entice you?

That rather misses the point. "They" are bombing for other reasons anyway - that wouldn't change. Suicide bombing would, however, disappear completely, as would a whole host of other religion justified killings (Honour killings, punishments for changing religions etc. etc.)

As for whether another God would entice me I don't know enough about the alternatives to rule them all out but it seems highly unlikely.

[rexbeccarox]

ronedee, you think awfully little of your fellow theists. You think that without your god, they would all go around like savages. Funny, how those of us without belief don't do that.

[ronedee]

ronedee, you think awfully little of your fellow theists. You think that without your god, they would all go around like savages. Funny, how those of us without belief don't do that.

Whaaaaa?

It's very apparent to "ALL" that the foundation has been set! In other words, God has been a part of our lives (whether you like it or not) and the overall moral climate/compass has been set since the beginning of time.

You, and many are trying to change the "maker" of that compass, claiming to be moral and "Good". There is only ONE that is GOOD!

It is plain to see that you and others here can't see past the ends of your noses. And that if indeed there were no moral comapss we would be no better than animals.

Make your little jokes and spin it up in what ever direction that makes you feel good about yourselves....but in the end you cannot deny that all good has been instituted by God!

Man does NOT have that capacity! As proven over and over by all of us!