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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 11:59 am
(June 26, 2013 at 11:52 am)Rationalman Wrote: (June 26, 2013 at 11:44 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Look folks, most of what you are accusing Christians of is Atheists do too. This is turning into a school yard fight based on who has the most koodies.
That is true, but it doesn't matter who does it. It matters why they do it. In the bible, people do bad things in the name of god. Atheists do bad things. Thats just it, they don't do it in the name of atheism, they just do bad things because they are bad people.
I just want to add for clarity that religious people also do bad things that aren't motivated by their religious beliefs. Before believers get too excited about this, you have to then admit that the religious belief is not a deterrent to bad behavior.
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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm
(June 26, 2013 at 11:57 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: I beg to differ, but that is what makes us different isn't it?
What do you beg to differ on?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm
(June 26, 2013 at 11:55 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: (June 26, 2013 at 10:51 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: You are assuming that all religious people are brainwashed, or that religion itself is a brainwashing process. However, what are you teaching your children about religion, God, how the universe came to be? I would suspect you are "brainwashing" them with Atheism, evolution, and the Big Bang theory.
This was an interesting comment, and I apologize for taking so long to get to it. You suspect incorrectly. Atheists have a highly variable approach to child-rearing, because atheism (nor theism) has nothing to say about child-rearing, because the only thing is is about is lack of belief in God(s). Because of the tendency for Western atheists to be freethinkers, humanists, and/or rationalists; it's common (though by no means universal) for atheists in the USA to encourage their children to come to their own conclusions about God(s) and religion, letting their children know that their love is not conditional on them being atheists. Some go so far as to take their children to services in different houses of worship or join up with the Unitarians because their religious education program teaches about the different religions of the world without requiring belief in one of them. If you value independent thinking, you don't squash it in your children, though they have a natural tendency to imitate their parents when very young, and an equally natural tendency to avoid imitating their parents when teenagers. I count myself among those who prefer to let children come to their own conclusions regarding the reality of deities. And even if you really, really want your kids to be atheists, I think cramming it down their throats will be counterproductive in the long run.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or gods. An Atheistic house would lack pictures, texts, knick knacks depicting a God or gods. In other words an Atheistic house lacks religion. In contrast, a Christian's house has those things, and has religion.
Tell me how a child growing up in an Atheistic house wouldn't be "brainwashed" simply by their surroundings and their parents personalities by the lack of religion. The opposite is ascribed to me and my ilk like we're some kind of perverts for teaching our children our religion.
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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 12:02 pm
(June 26, 2013 at 11:41 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: (June 26, 2013 at 11:38 am)Rationalman Wrote: Well by that reasoning I can say you are atheistic as well. You only believe in one god, one religion, you don't believe the thousands of others that have come and gone. That means that we are only a little bit more atheistic than you
In conclusion, Christians and Atheists have murdered millions of people throughout history. Therefore, there is no moral authority here in this forum. Let's all get down off of our high horses.
True that. Having body counts to compare in the first place means the moral high ground already went out the window.
However the opposite of atheism isn't Christianity, it's theism. It's kind of weird to compare an opinion on one topic with a specific relgion. For oranges to oranges, you either want to compare atheism and theism as a whole (again, no moral high ground for anyone there), or specific atheistic philosophies or ideologies with specific theistic religions. There might be dangerous levels of agreement then, however. 
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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 12:02 pm
(June 26, 2013 at 11:53 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: There are some Atheist fanatics on this very forum, and the answer some have given to my question is to see a world without religion. Sounds like the trappings of religion to me.
Denying Atheism is a world-view, or religious in nature, seems like a way to deflect attention from yourselves to what you think is a contradiction, flaw, or downright "evil" intention of a religion or religious person.
Atheism is the absence of something. The very word is "a" (without) + "theism" (belief in a god or gods). It's the lack of something. It describes what someone is not. Not what someone is.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 12:03 pm
(June 26, 2013 at 11:57 am)Rationalman Wrote: (June 26, 2013 at 11:53 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: There are some Atheist fanatics on this very forum, and the answer some have given to my question is to see a world without religion. Sounds like the trappings of religion to me.
I'm a Doctor Who fanatic, I want everyone in the world to watch it. It must be a religion then.
Out of context.
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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 12:04 pm
(June 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or gods. An Atheistic house would lack pictures, texts, knick knacks depicting a God or gods. In other words an Atheistic house lacks religion. In contrast, a Christian's house has those things, and has religion.
Tell me how a child growing up in an Atheistic house wouldn't be "brainwashed" simply by their surroundings and their parents personalities by the lack of religion. The opposite is ascribed to me and my ilk like we're some kind of perverts for teaching our children our religion.
Because atheism is the default position. It doesn't teach anything. You can't brainwash people if you don't teach them what to think. Atheism teaches you how to think.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 12:05 pm
(June 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: Tell me how a child growing up in an Atheistic house wouldn't be "brainwashed" simply by their surroundings and their parents personalities by the lack of religion. The opposite is ascribed to me and my ilk like we're some kind of perverts for teaching our children our religion.
How can nothing brainwash someone? How does not instructing them to believe something amount to brainwashing?
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 12:05 pm
(This post was last modified: June 26, 2013 at 12:05 pm by ShadowWolf1986.)
(June 26, 2013 at 11:59 am)cato123 Wrote: (June 26, 2013 at 11:52 am)Rationalman Wrote: That is true, but it doesn't matter who does it. It matters why they do it. In the bible, people do bad things in the name of god. Atheists do bad things. Thats just it, they don't do it in the name of atheism, they just do bad things because they are bad people.
I just want to add for clarity that religious people also do bad things that aren't motivated by their religious beliefs. Before believers get too excited about this, you have to then admit that the religious belief is not a deterrent to bad behavior.
As one Atheist said, the end goal of Atheism is to have a world without religion. In this world, what happens when someone becomes religious? This world cannot exist without violent oppression.
(June 26, 2013 at 12:01 pm)Rationalman Wrote: (June 26, 2013 at 11:57 am)ShadowWolf1986 Wrote: I beg to differ, but that is what makes us different isn't it?
What do you beg to differ on?
Atheism
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RE: The End Game of Atheism
June 26, 2013 at 12:07 pm
Quote:Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or gods. An Atheistic house would lack pictures, texts, knick knacks depicting a God or gods. In other words an Atheistic house lacks religion. In contrast, a Christian's house has those things, and has religion.
Tell me how a child growing up in an Atheistic house wouldn't be "brainwashed" simply by their surroundings and their parents personalities by the lack of religion. The opposite is ascribed to me and my ilk like we're some kind of perverts for teaching our children our religion.
So now brainwashing is not bringing up something to a child? Also why am I insulting you by saying that your methods of brainwashing is superior to ours? You said the exact same thing and I just agreed with you and you thought I was trying to insult you? I wasn't even trying.
About the evolution claim, there's an episode on star trek where a guy evolved into an energy being. You might find some insight there. It's star trek TNG.
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