Bible-less Christians

[Bad Writer]

Was he doing that shit too?

[Doubting Thomas]

Yes, he said to me:

Unlike the relationship you have with your wife, God wants to hear from us, that's how relationships work.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-19927.html

Then after I call him out on it, he says that "the natives are restless." That's like going into an NAACP meeting and asking, "why are all you niggers so testy?"

[Bad Writer]

He and Koolay have more in common than they realize then. TSQ and I had to get on his case for something he said about my relationship about a week back.

[Faith No More]

That's like going into an NAACP meeting and asking, "why are all you niggers so testy?"

Are you using my bit?

[Doubting Thomas]

I don't know, but it sure fits. I don't know if GC just needs to feed his persecution complex or what, but he shouldn't be surprised when people get angry with him for acting like a jerk.

[Whateverist]

I think most of know a Christian or two out there that believe in Jesus and God without once ever picking up a Bible to read about their doings. Surprisingly, some of these people are extremely moral, good to their fellow man, and genuinely the nicest people you will have ever met. (There are always bad eggs out there too, I haven't forgotten.)

But what if there had never been a Bible? Would there still be Christianity today? If the teachings had survived word of mouth, certainly a form of it would still be around, but would it look something like the Christianity that the above-mentioned people practice, something completely devoid of a wrathful and vengeful god?

I have to say, being an atheist, this form of religion is still not acceptable to me as I prefer facts over myth, but I find it an interesting concept, to think how things could have been without the Bible around since many people don't use it anyway.

It brings up a long standing question I have as to the minimal requirements of Christianity. I think an agnostic Christian who reads the bible allegorically, expects no after-life and does not feel compelled to evangelize is a coherent position. They'd also make much better neighbors than the literal, smug sort we most often encounter online.

Now to see what everyone else has to say to this initial post of yours.

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The meta-narrative of Israel and God defines and drives the human story. That story of sin, exile, forgiveness and restoration is our story.

I wonder when you say "our" story, if you had in mind Christians or mankind generally. I'd say this is certainly one of our -in the broader sense- stories. Coming to grips with our own failed good intentions and learning to accept our imperfection is a narrative of human maturation. I wouldn't say it is the only important narrative. I also don't think we need the vehicle of a human sacrifice (the redeemer) who takes upon himself the imperfection (sins) of the whole community as a means of accomplishing forgiveness and acceptance. That is a primitive approach and inferior to one in which individuals accept responsibility and accept their own imperfection directly. I see no reason why a Christian can't make use of a more modern narrative. Do you?

[Vicki Q]

Of course it is exactly that. A "story." It never happened.

http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~tkeene/ogtIsraelHerzog.pdf

Professor Herzog is an Israeli archaeologist and somewhat better versed in the subject than bible-thumping theologians who dig in the hope of finding a rock that "Moses" pissed on.

I think there's two main points here. Firstly, I try to not confuse truth with factuality.

Secondly, given that, the truth of the controlling biblical meta-narrative/story is broadly unaffected by whether or not archaeology finds Moses private toilet key.

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I wonder when you say "our" story, if you had in mind Christians or mankind generally. I'd say this is certainly one of our -in the broader sense- stories. Coming to grips with our own failed good intentions and learning to accept our imperfection is a narrative of human maturation. I wouldn't say it is the only important narrative. I also don't think we need the vehicle of a human sacrifice (the redeemer) who takes upon himself the imperfection (sins) of the whole community as a means of accomplishing forgiveness and acceptance. That is a primitive approach and inferior to one in which individuals accept responsibility and accept their own imperfection directly. I see no reason why a Christian can't make use of a more modern narrative. Do you?

There's a lot of very important issues going on here. I do think that, unlike most modern Christian analysis, the thinking needs to be done within the context of God's community and people.

The storyline pre-supposes that the stages of sin, exile, forgiveness and restoration are done by/to God's people, rather than as individuals. The OT prophets might not have been big sinners, but they were part of a community that was, so all suffered exile. Then when the people repented, they were forgiven and restored. The NT takes this on board, and continues with the “We” approach. In our individualistic age, this has become “I”.

But the NT analysis is that Christ did what only God could do, and restored a forgiven community. However this community was redefined in terms of its relationship to Christ. As such, it's not about me, it's about God. I would describe this as time unlimited, a variation on modern.

[Whateverist]

I wonder when you say "our" story, if you had in mind Christians or mankind generally. I'd say this is certainly one of our -in the broader sense- stories. Coming to grips with our own failed good intentions and learning to accept our imperfection is a narrative of human maturation. I wouldn't say it is the only important narrative. I also don't think we need the vehicle of a human sacrifice (the redeemer) who takes upon himself the imperfection (sins) of the whole community as a means of accomplishing forgiveness and acceptance. That is a primitive approach and inferior to one in which individuals accept responsibility and accept their own imperfection directly. I see no reason why a Christian can't make use of a more modern narrative. Do you?

There's a lot of very important issues going on here. I do think that, unlike most modern Christian analysis, the thinking needs to be done within the context of God's community and people.

The storyline pre-supposes that the stages of sin, exile, forgiveness and restoration are done by/to God's people, rather than as individuals. The OT prophets might not have been big sinners, but they were part of a community that was, so all suffered exile. Then when the people repented, they were forgiven and restored. The NT takes this on board, and continues with the “We” approach. In our individualistic age, this has become “I”.

But the NT analysis is that Christ did what only God could do, and restored a forgiven community. However this community was redefined in terms of its relationship to Christ. As such, it's not about me, it's about God. I would describe this as time unlimited, a variation on modern.

But don't some Christians view all people as God's people? It would seem quaint if the God who 'created the entire cosmos' turned out to only be invested in the goings on of one little tribe of human beings along with those who believed without proof just this one set of religious claims.

[Statler Waldorf]

I see no reason why a Christian can't make use of a more modern narrative. Do you?

I see a reason….it is wrong.

And your opinion counts for what?

GC, do you forget? It’s never atheists’ fault, it’s always yours and mine.

On the other hand, many here don't agree with you, GC. What do you think that means?

It means he’s a Christian posting on an atheist forum silly, I’d be worried if the majority of the people on this forum agreed with us.

[Whateverist]

And your opinion counts for what?

GC, do you forget? It’s never atheists’ fault, it’s always yours and mine.

Listen to the man, GC.

On the other hand, many here don't agree with you, GC. What do you think that means?

It means he’s a Christian posting on an atheist forum silly, I’d be worried if the majority of the people on this forum agreed with us.

I'm sure glad to have help harvesting all the low lying fruit.