Did They Not Pray Hard Enough

[ronedee]

duncuff!

Is that even English?!

Anyway, it isn`t the definition of the word "consent".

Seems like you have a problem with the definition of words, since you alo didn`t manage to correctly define the word "Agnostic" and the word "Atheist".

Maybe you like to simply give words the definitions that you want them to have or your own purposes. But a word of warning: If you continue doing that, the savage, psychotic dictonary monster will one day jump out of your closet, skin you alive with a cheese crater - then gut you, cut your legst off, boil the guts in hot water, flavor it with the skin shreds and eat them using your legs like chinese chop sticks whilest you have to watch.

You also seem to be incapable of participating in a debate and think that debating someone is to simply scream a bunch of words that just came to your mind into a forum. I am the debating monster and unlike the dictonary monster, if you continue doing that I wont tell you where I will hide and wait for you.

Do you actually "read" ANYTHING you reply to?

I SAID: "WITHOUT FATHERS CONSENT".

[Something completely different]

Do you actually "read" ANYTHING you reply to?

I SAID: "WITHOUT FATHERS CONSENT".

The potential fathers consent is irrelevant.

The potential mothers consent is relevant.

And all abortions are certainly not done with out the potential fathers consent.

Dont forget the word potential.

[Minimalist]

Complaining about your new members again?

The ranks of the godless include those clergy. You're gaining in numbers! Enjoy!

So 2 of your recent popes were godless?

They all pretty much suck. This new guy is just a better con man so far. He'll trip on his own dick, soon enough. Anyone who consorts with a military junta has a few skeletons in the closet.

[Tonus]

Because not everyone wants what God wants for them.

And god doesn't know which is which unless they ask?

Yes. Why? because the primary ingredient in what God wants for you contains a large dose of humility. Not the kind that is forced onto people, but the kind that willing A/S/K for it.

Asking for something doesn't necessarily connote humility. Why does god need for a person to humble himself before he reveals himself? Does he have self-esteem issues?

Because God did not give an absolute or difinitive version of Christianity. It is all based on the indivisual and what he can comperhend. Because we are all different our expressions of faith will look different.

So belief in god is the key? The interpretation of the book is secondary?

The same God that established Christianity established Judaism. Judaism is a religion with absolute absolutes, and a very strict structure with no room for interpertation. So why wasn't christianity constructed the same way? Look at how Jesus railed against the Jewish leadership of the day, how he pointed out over and over that thier worship was extreamly mechanical and did not include any effort in up holding the spirit of the law.

Does this mean that god got it wrong the first time around, and Christianity is the version of worship that he got right after a few centuries of trial and error?

Hence the reason for so many different expressions of Christianity. Now no one man or group of men has the power to dictate what is and is not worship. We simply do the absolute best that we can.

Do you feel that any denomination that organizes itself into a church with leaders in specific roles is doing it wrong? What you describe sounds a bit like many churches which lead through a hierarchy.

The last few responses just seemed to reinforce the point I was making about how a person who doesn't find god is apparently not trying hard enough or taking the right steps, even though there is no attempt to explain what the steps might be or how they are taken. It doesn't really help a person who would want to understand why god never reveals himself, or why he cannot be found.

[StuW]

This seems to be what you are saying.

How about now?

I think I do, how about this analogy..

God is a company, each of the facets of the trinity are departments..
Yahweh - Directors
Jesus - Public Relations
HS - Accountant

Ergo you could say that humanity are potential shareholders and have to "Buy in" to the company and stay with them to get a dividend (heaven). The Company business plan would be the bible and as long as you stick to the business plan you get a good dividend! You could also take this further and say that in order for the shareholders (humanity) to get the dividend the we had to stay out of Debt (sin) so Jesus's department was closed (sacrificed) to save money but he was re-hired onto the board of directors!!

Close enough?

[Cyberman]

duncuff!

Is that even English?!

I do believe he was trying to call you a "dummkopf". It's never a good idea to use words that you've only ever heard but never actually seen written down. Chances are you will have no idea how they work.

[Minimalist]

You know....it's pretty sad when you try to call someone else a dummkopf and fuck it up.

[Cinjin]

Luke 11
9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
That's not a disclaimer Dich. In fact it basically says that your fucktard god will actually give even better than your own family because he's the holy fucking king of the world ... and moreover that he WON'T give you something negative in it's place.

how about now, Christ Clearly states what your prayer should be about.

#1: CLEARLY, your highlighted portion of the text doesn't say ANYTHING about what your prayer should be about Nada.
#2: You did not even bother to address the fact that your heavenly dad further says he will give BETTER gifts.

So not only does he not put parameters on the request, he says he will do you one better. Now instead of just simply stating that "christ clearly states what your prayer should be about," please do explain how the actual words written in the text can produce your conclusion.

because right now this is clearly the ONLY evidence you've presented:

[Drich]

Clearly, so I will let you chock this one up as another win, and I will bow out.

---

The Bible is too much Babble to know what God wants for anyone. Prayer is a waste just because of this simple fact.

Christ said the whole law can be summed up in two commands. What is hard about that?

Looks like all those humble folk out in India and China are going to Hell because they didn't know they were supposed to ask something of their creator. Your God is a Dick. If he knew what was best for them he'd figure out a way to send them the message. If he does, then that means it wasn't by prayer, which renders prayer, once again, ineffectual and unnecessary in this instance.

Are you Jesus? Then how can you possiably know where the people in China or India will spend eternity, and/or why?
Again, Chirst said: "No one can come to the Father but through Him." Not 'no one can come to the Father but through a specific brand of Christianity.'

Then you have no way of knowing whether or not you're right. You also, therefore, have no reason to preach to anyone if you aren't even sure your story is right.

That's just it sport, No one is right as there is not an absolute right.

Christianity is a Journey, as long as we are doing the best we can do and are moving in the direction of Christ we are in Grace. Meaning that we will be forgiven our 'wrong' worship in an attempt to worship God with all of our being.

Let's see (flips through the NT). Okay, so in this story book, I see that a few men wrote about a man named Jesus, and that a few elements from the story was his disdain for the Pharisees and the Sadducees. However, this character also had very clear objectives, laws, and teachings.

His law, was to Love your Lord God with all of your being (Mind, Spirit, Heart, Strength) and to Love your neighbor as yourself. Everything He taught went to undergird those two laws if it wasn't about the comming sacerfice.

He never said anything such as "Go forth and...er...kinda follow what I said. Ya dig?"

I disagree. He said Go out and do your absolute best. Knowing that the one person's absolute best did not measure up to another person's version of it, He gave the parable of the 2 mites. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=ERV (the first four verses.)

He had very detailed methods on how his disciples would preach his words, he had very clear morals that were outlined, such as how the Law of Moses would be changed, and his doctrines were even very clearly defined

show me. Book Chapter and verse.

, such as how a person should enter into Heaven and how they should pray.

Which is apart of Giving yourself completely over to God as I have already pointed out.

If you are a Christian, Drich, then you're a bad one, and you are probably going to Jesus' Hell, unless he finds a way

Indeed, and that 'way' your unaware of is call Attonement.

For the same grace that is extended to all Christians when they willfully sin is also extended to the Body when we with all of our minds, Heart, Spirit, and Strength try to understand and worship the Lord and still get it wrong.

It's like a 3 year old sneaking into the cookie jar and eating himself sick, even though he knows he is not allowed to do that. A loving Father can and will find forgiveness for one of his sons. (and let the belly ache be it's own punishment.)

Now take the same kid doing his best to draw out his family standing in front of their house. If the absolute standard is a reality based picture taken in HD, and the kid draws stick figures in blue and red crayons, is the Father that loves him going to punish the child for what the child drew our of an absolute and pure love? Of course not for the child took all of his ablity and made the best repersentation of his family that he could. It is the effort that the picture repersents that is important, not the picture itself.

Then, by your admission, Mormons, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, 7th Day Adventists, Moonies, and many more strange forms of your Christianity are going to your version of Heaven since they hold Christ as the central figure of their worship. Am I right? No? What the fuck, Drich?

I am not in a position to say who goes and who does not. I am sure their will be a handful of people from all religions repersented there. For we are only responsiable to what we have been given.

But I can say that Mormons are not Christ centered the are Joseph Smith centered. Catholics are pope centered, the J/W's are watch tower centered, 7th day guys from what I understand are a little too legalistic for my taste but are Christ centered, not sure what a moonie is.

In short if one takes a doctrine or hold their religious leadership in such regaurd as to have authority to change the bible, then they are not biblically based Christians. They are whatever their religion has made them to be. Even so, Christ will ultimatly judge who was 'Christian' and who was not.

So then why aren't you in awe over the Book of Mormon or Al-Quran? The Baghavad Gita is pretty amazing, and so is the Epic of Gilgamesh. Greek Mythology is so rich in details and the interactions between Gods and men are more than any mortal could hope for!

Because they are empty inside.
The bible makes promises. If you do A and B God will give you C. He did. the other religions I studied make similar promises that did not pan out.

Ahem...You are a bad Christian!!!!

I KNOW!!!! Even so, I am still a Christian as I have met the minimum requirements.

After about 3 hours of really trying, I figured it was all actually just between me and nothing. How interesting that you think people who legitimately try to seek answers from God are just not trying hard enough when they come back empty-handed.

I said after An hour of trying to find the path you will find it. You still have to walk that path. that takes a life time.

You heard voices in your head and they didn't, and you look down on them?

When did I say that??

[Drich]

And god doesn't know which is which unless they ask?

The A/S/King is not for God it is for us.
In order to do this as stated we must first have the right heart and/or mind set.
If we do not have it we can ask god to help us get it.

Asking for something doesn't necessarily connote humility.

Indeed, but asking is only apart of the A/S/K equasion The seeking and especially the knocking is what seperates the humble from the proud.

Why does god need for a person to humble himself before he reveals himself? Does he have self-esteem issues?

If you were invited to meet the world leaders at a grand black tie ball/dinner. would you dress the part or would you go unshowered, unbathed, and wearing your jam jams? Power demands compliance. If your willing to conform to something as trivial as a dress code under the request and authority of man's leadership, then why wouldn't you do what the creator of everything asks of you?

So belief in god is the key?

Belief in Christ enough to take Him up on what He said do.

The interpretation of the book is secondary?

The vast majority of people from the time of Christ till now either did not have a book or could not read it, so what do you think? Christ tells us we are only responsiable to what we have been given. If we have the book and can read it then we are responsiable for as much as we can comperhend, with the expectation that we spend the rest of our lives trying to further understand, along the way helping people to also understand as you do.

Does this mean that god got it wrong the first time around, and Christianity is the version of worship that he got right after a few centuries of trial and error?

One can not truly be 'free' unless first he knows he has been bound. A man in Jail knows he is bound, but a man who bought a house and can bearly afford to make that payment every month may not know he is just as much a prisioner as the man in jail, because he lives in a prision of his own choosing.

Like wise we would not know the prision of sin unless God first passed the law to identify it and all that it took to absolve sin.

Do you feel that any denomination that organizes itself into a church with leaders in specific roles is doing it wrong?

For what I understand all those churches are wrong for me. But that does not mean they are wrong for the people that attend them. We have been told to worship with all of our being for me that looks differently than someone who may attend a denominational church. I have nothing against most of them and would worship and praise in just about any of them. The only reservation I would have is the attitude of the members in a given church in allowing an outside 'Christian' worship with them.

What you describe sounds a bit like many churches which lead through a hierarchy.

That's what the word 'denomination' means. a Church or system of belief with a president, board, pope, or consoul deciding over the rules and regulation/what to believe of everyone under that specific brand of belief.

Non-Denominational Churches tend to be lead by the actual leadership with in that given assemble (Elders and decons, as per what the bible teaches.) Which sometimes is a very good thing and sometimes is not (Westbro baptist) the claim the name but do not follow the baptist doctrine.)

It doesn't really help a person who would want to understand why god never reveals himself, or why he cannot be found.

God reveals Himself, make no mistake. One simply must humble himself to receive such a revelation on His terms and not our own.