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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 2:33 am
(July 29, 2013 at 5:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Why do you pray? (This is mainly for the theists, obviously.)
It seems to me that prayer, broadly speaking, falls into two general catagories: intercessory prayer (where you ask God to effect a change for you or for someone else) and supplicatory prayer (where you tell God how wonderful he is, or how thankful you are, or some such).
Why bother? If everything which happens is according to God's plan (or God's will, or Divine Providence, or whatever the current buzzword is), then an intercessory prayer cannot possible affect the outcome - what is going to happen has been decided already by God. Furthermore (apos to Ambrose Bierce), isn't it rather arrogant of you to ask God to alter his plans on your behalf, when you've already admitted that you're unworthy to have him do so?
And, since God is omniscient, he already knows that's he terrific and how thankful you are - why do you need to tell him? Seems kind of like if every passenger were to walk up to the bus conductor every two seconds and tell him, 'This is the Number 4 bus.'
That in mind, what is the point of prayer?
Boru
Now that the resident know-it-alls have given their wise answers, maybe the Christians here can get a word in, being that you did ask us. It wasn't that obvious to our know-it alls, I'm pretty sure they believe their experts on this subject, enough of that I'll try and give you an answer.
I pray to grow in a relationship with God, just as you talk to your friends to gain a stronger relationship. I ask questions of Him about the Bible and many subjects to gain wisdom about things I do not understand growing in a relationship with a teacher. I ask deeper spiritual questions to grow closer to God. I ask that He would help me in problems I run into in life. growing with a mentor. There are countless reasons to pray, to show thankfulness for His provisions. Think of it this way, your friend gives you a nice gift you open it up and then walk away with no emotions shown or words said, think the friend might feel you are not appreciative. Your friend knew you would be pleased with the gift, it's your friend and friends know what will make friends pleased.
God's ultimate will can not be changed, but the lives within that will can have changes to them as long as it does not interfere with God's ultimate will. Healing, financial help, safety, relationships and other things can and are changed as long as it doesn't interfere with His ultimate will. God has not planed out every second of your life nor mine, He leaves us with many choices, he does have plans for our lives and some choose to be consumed in that plan, but most Christians do not and we have that choice. To show you God has not set your life or mine to a time table that can't be changed, God says children obey your parents and your days may be prolonged, I'd have to look it up but i'm pretty sure there's verses that speak of fools shortening their lives. I pray to praise God and show my respect, what I wonder is why you would think praying is a waste of time, just because God knows everything that will happen in our lives doesn't mean He doesn't want to communicate with us or help us.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 2:52 am
(This post was last modified: July 30, 2013 at 2:53 am by fr0d0.)
(July 29, 2013 at 5:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Why bother? If everything which happens is according to God's plan (1)
And, since God is omniscient, he already knows that's he terrific and how thankful you are (2)
1. If we didn't bother, then Gods plan for us would have been not to bother.
If we don't ask, then God wouldn't need to respond. From our (time limited) perspective, God is continuously managing the universe.
He makes us worthy. We aren't worthy by our own efforts.
2. We need to tell him for ourselves. It builds us up.
If we didn't need to express it, we wouldn't feel it. We do feel it, hence the need to express it.
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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 5:46 am
(July 30, 2013 at 2:33 am)Godschild Wrote: Now that the resident know-it-alls have given their wise answers, maybe the Christians here can get a word in, being that you did ask us. It wasn't that obvious to our know-it alls, I'm pretty sure they believe their experts on this subject, enough of that I'll try and give you an answer.
Did you not see this part, G-C?
(July 29, 2013 at 5:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: This is mainly for the theists, obviously.
Please tell the class where Brian specifies xtians, exclusively or otherwise, and win yourself a wowwypop. Sour Grape flavour, obviously.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 8:52 am
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...72253.html
The power of prayer is apparently negative from the above. The above experiment gave no difference in results between those who were not being prayed for and those that were and didn't know it.
Those that were being prayed for, and knew it, did worse.
This is probably a psychological effect in the line of: Jesus - I am so sick they are praying for me.
Why pray indeed!
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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 10:12 am
Still - the best explanation of "prayer."
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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 10:19 am
But GC, why do you need to tell people that you will pray for them?
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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 10:39 am
Because that's how sympathetic magic 'works'. I have to tell you I'm putting the Evil Eye on you in order for your imagination do do the job for me. Conversely with prayers. That it's all bollocks is incidental, it seems.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 10:47 am
Oh, the modern hex. I like the sound of that. No wonder I feel icky when someone tells me that they'll pray for me.
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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 12:40 pm
(July 30, 2013 at 2:33 am)Godschild Wrote: I pray to grow in a relationship with God...
Example, please ?
How exactly that happens ?
Feedback loop can be good, but it can be bad as well, especially if only one voice is heard
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RE: What Is The Point Of Prayer?
July 30, 2013 at 12:53 pm
(July 30, 2013 at 2:52 am)fr0d0 Wrote: (July 29, 2013 at 5:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Why bother? If everything which happens is according to God's plan (1)
And, since God is omniscient, he already knows that's he terrific and how thankful you are (2)
1. If we didn't bother, then Gods plan for us would have been not to bother.
If we don't ask, then God wouldn't need to respond. From our (time limited) perspective, God is continuously managing the universe.
He makes us worthy. We aren't worthy by our own efforts.
2. We need to tell him for ourselves. It builds us up.
If we didn't need to express it, we wouldn't feel it. We do feel it, hence the need to express it.
I've always been of the opinion that if you talk to your god, it shows that you have religious beliefs. If god talks back, you might be in need of a straight jacket.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
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