Dead for 45 minutes; an interesting near-death experience

[Angrboda]

The human body has all sorts of unexpected tricks to keep it alive. You can't always draw a straight line between "doesn't appear to be breathing" and "brain cells dying." The body's reaction to life threatening trauma is too complex to make such simplistic assumptions.

Moreover, it's worth noting that she was undergoing anaphylactic shock, presumably from ingestion of food. That doesn't necessarily imply that she was receiving no air to her lungs, her lungs were likely still functioning during this time, and there was no stoppage of blood flow to the brain. I don't know much about anaphylactic shock in general, but Wikipedia states that typical onset for ingestion of food is 2 hours, which makes the dramatic retelling of this story as "dead for 45 minutes" sound more like religious propaganda than an honest account of a true event.

Anyway, for my money, all this rests on an ontological mistake. I don't know for certain, but my hunch is that consciousness is not "a thing" and thus it can't leave your body and go places. Consciousness is data. Nothing more. Normally that data is maintained with appropriate values like, "I'm inside my body right now"; however, since it's data, it can take on any value it wants without the slightest violation of the laws of physics; values such as "I'm floating six feet above my body," or even, "I'm a six foot penis named Bob." Data can be anything it wants to be. It normally isn't, because the brain uses the data that is consciousness to organize behaviors and so it's meant to track and mirror real world events, but if the brain isn't functioning normally, that data can take on values that aren't normal.

[Little Rik]

I don't know for certain, but my hunch is that consciousness is not "a thing" and thus it can't leave your body and go places.

Opshhh, these guys disconnected their body from their consciousness in order not to feel the pain.
This time you are excused for saying...........I don't know for certain
http://jamie-monk.blogspot.com.au/2011/0...urite.html

Consciousness is data. Nothing more. Normally that data is maintained with appropriate values like, "I'm inside my body right now"; however, since it's data, it can take on any value it wants without the slightest violation of the laws of physics; values such as "I'm floating six feet above my body," or even, "I'm a six foot penis named Bob." Data can be anything it wants to be. It normally isn't, because the brain uses the data that is consciousness to organize behaviors and so it's meant to track and mirror real world events, but if the brain isn't functioning normally, that data can take on values that aren't normal.

Guessing again?
How would you know that the consciousness can take on value that aren't normal?
And what is normal?

---

My question is, what about all those people who are clinically dead, but don't experience an NDE? You know, no tunnel of light, no floating over your body, no meeting dead relatives, just unconscious for a while?

Interesting question.
Considering that we are all different with our good and bad and our karma (reaction due to previous actions) then it is easy to understand why we do not experience the same thing when we have a NDE.
It is like to be rewarded or deny a reward or having a reward according to the level of our actions.
You just get what you deserve.
If you in the previous life were a rapist or a murderer then it is quite possible that you see absolutely nothing and when you die for good only to end up straight into the body of a pig or a cockroach.
On the other hand if you are ok then you are allow to see and experience whatever you can.

[Doubting Thomas]

And that's another thing... why are not all NDE's exactly the same? When you hear the descriptions of them, they all might contain the "tunnel of light" but aside from that they all vary widely in their retelling. You'd think that if the NDE is actually proof of life after death then everyone would experience the exact same thing, whether it be just going toward the light or standing at the pearly gates.

[NoraBrimstone]

DMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMTDMT

[Little Rik]

And that's another thing... why are not all NDE's exactly the same? When you hear the descriptions of them, they all might contain the "tunnel of light" but aside from that they all vary widely in their retelling. You'd think that if the NDE is actually proof of life after death then everyone would experience the exact same thing, whether it be just going toward the light or standing at the pearly gates.

Actually some other experience tell of getting out a lotus flower instead from a tunnel.
Not only that but if you were following Christianity you will see Christ, if you were following Buddha you will see Buddha, if you were following Shiva you will see Shiva if you were into spirituality you may perceive God as a bright light, if you never believe in religion or spirituality but you were ok then you may perceive God in different manner.
It would be interesting to read as many NDE experience as possible to give you an idea how the system works.
However if you still perceive God as a person and you are still into religion then it is quite likely that you will have to be reincarnated until you get rid of dogmas but this is my personal opinion.
Everything at the end will be judge according good and bad.

[bennyboy]

enrico, you say a lot of made-up stuff.

It's good to have experiences of your own, and it can be fun to read about other people's experiences. You might even learn something. But when you start saying "everything at the end will be judged," you're talking out your ass. How would you know this, other than making it up, or believing someone who made it up?

[Minimalist]

The problem with "believers" is that they tend to believe everything they are told.

[Simon Moon]

Not only that but if you were following Christianity you will see Christ, if you were following Buddha you will see Buddha, if you were following Shiva you will see Shiva if you were into spirituality you may perceive God as a bright light, if you never believe in religion or spirituality but you were ok then you may perceive God in different manner.

And how would we differentiate these experiences you claim are 'real spiritual' experience, and an experience caused purely by the brain under the stress of being close to dying?

Everything at the end will be judge according good and bad.

How do you know this? Please don't quote a text, a guru or someone's personal experience.

[Doubting Thomas]

Not only that but if you were following Christianity you will see Christ, if you were following Buddha you will see Buddha, if you were following Shiva you will see Shiva if you were into spirituality you may perceive God as a bright light, if you never believe in religion or spirituality but you were ok then you may perceive God in different manner.

That's what I mean. Everyone who experiences an NDE sees different things, often according to their own religion. It's almost as if their brain is fabricating the whole experience as a result of the stress of dying.

[Minimalist]

Truth be told it is no stupider - nor more reasonable - than what the Ancient Egyptians believed.

Religion has not come a long way, baby.


http://www.egyptian-scarabs.co.uk/weighi..._heart.htm

The symbolic ritual that accompanied this ritual was the weighing of the heart of the deceased on a pair of enormous scales. It was weighed against the principle of truth and justice ( known as maat ) represented by a feather, the symbol of the goddess of truth, order and justice, Maat. If the heart balanced against the feather then the deceased would be granted a place in the Fields of Hetep and Iaru. If it was heavy with the weight of wrongdoings, the balance would sink and the heart would be grabbed and devoured by a terrifying beast that sat ready and waiting by the scales. This beast was Ammit, "the gobbler", a composite animal with the head of a crocodile, the front legs and body of lion or leopard, and the back legs of a hippopotamus.