Christ's birthday

[Minimalist]

Am I correct then in assuming that you see this as support for discrediting the Tacitus quote I provided previously? I wonder...do you agree with all of the support the author provides or just some of it? If only some of it, which support do you agree with and which do you not agree with and why?

You would be correct.

However, part of being a skeptic means that one does not automatically trust anything that is written. Therefore, as the author was kind enough to provide citations, I made it a point to check a random sample and found him to be correct.

This site was invaluable for that.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com

At least concerning those early xtian writers who seem to know nothing about any Neronian persecution of xtians. Nero is one of those people in history who we know about only through the writings of his enemies, (Herod the Great and Caligula come to mind as two others.)

Actual Roman records of "persecution" of xtians begins in the mid-3d century

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/persecu...ersecution

and it appears that with xtians cheering the repeated military defeats which the Empire suffered in the East at that time at the hands of the Parthians that they went out of their way to make themselves unpopular.

I only recently found a translation of Severus' Chronica into English (I don't speak Latin) and if you'd like to read it, I'm sure I saved the link somewhere.

[chatpilot]

Rhizo I consider myself a strong or militant atheist and I disagree that my position takes faith. Simply put if I was to put everything I know about Christianity and mythology in general on one side of a scale and everything I know about scientific discoveries that contradict and in fact prove Christianity and mythological beliefs wrong, then I would be correct to choose the one that has the most weight.

All religions Christianity included are derived from previous mythology. I don't see a difference between mythology and religion, in my mind they are both exactly the same. There is no gray area for me gods either exist or they don't. Science and reason have slowly but surely been dismantling religious beliefs and over and over again have shown them all to be wrong. Let's not forget that what we now call myths or mythology at one time were called religions and believed in just as fervently as Christians believe in Christ.

[Minimalist]

As noted here, C/P.

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articl..._need.html

Dying and Resurrected Gods: Archetypal Manifestations of Psychological Need

By Ralph Monday

He who speaks with primordial images speaks with a thousand tongues… (Carl Jung)

Every culture that is examined, whether ancient or modern, has the concept of a dying and resurrected god. The manifestation takes many forms and is as primal as the unconscious recognition of the deep spiritual meaning grafted onto the vernal equinox, the present religious veneer just as superficial and with as little "true" depth as a drying stream.

Jesus merely being the last of the dying/resurrected god myths and perhaps the one with the shiniest chrome on the bumpers because of that.

[fr0d0]

That's not a position on God tho' Chatp but a position on religion. Sure you're aware of similarities between religious expression - well dur. You also refuse to think. Refuse to think of biblical text in the way it was meant.. and foolishly, like your literalist friends, look for hard evidence of parables. I wonder if you've ever conducted an equally ridiculous expose of Aesop's fables.

[chatpilot]

If I refused to think I would be a Christian. It is thinking that has led me to my current ideas on religious beliefs. There is no religion without God he is either worshipped as an ancestor, animal, nature, idols, or even another person is deified by his followers as the Chinese deified their emperors and the Egyptians deified their Pharaohs. This clearly illustrates that the whole concept of God or gods was man made. If man were not so inquisitive of the world we live in he would never have created gods.

[fr0d0]

It would clearly follow Chatty that if you went into Christianity as an idiot you would also go into atheism as an equally qualified idiot. The evidence certainly supports this.

"There is no religion without God" - Really??

Well DUH! @ religion being "man made". Islam states that God wrote the book. Christianity states that it was 'inspired'. Get the subtle difference?? I think you do not.

[chatpilot]

There you go fr0d0, with your childish petty insults, so mature. The whole concept of God or gods was man made. I guess this statement seems a little too profound for your faith ridden brain to comprehend.

fr0d0 said: Islam states that God wrote the book. Christianity states that it was 'inspired'. Get the subtle difference??

Not according to this article: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/423249

Here is an excerpt:
1) "The Qur’ān (Arabic: القرآن al-qur'ān, literally "the recitation"; also sometimes transliterated as Quran, Koran, or Al-Qur'an) is the central religious text of Islam. Muslims believe the Qur'an to be the book of divine guidance and direction for mankind and consider the text in its original Arabic to be the literal word of God, revealed to Muhammad over a period of twenty-three years and view the Qur'an as God's final revelation to humanity."

[fr0d0]

You nit pick Chatty. The literal word of God = God wrote it. It is exclusively inerrant, unlike the bible.

I notice you ignored your other crazy statement.

The God is man made line has worn so this it's worn out chatty. Despite the irrelevance pointed out to you, which you never want to address, you keep on regurgitating it. Change the record please!

[chatpilot]

It does not state that God wrote it it means that God dictated it to Muhammad and he wrote it. The bible claims to be inspired by God in a similar manner but just to more than one man. Prove that god isn't man made then and I will gladly change my tune. You call my statements crazy but you are the one who still believes in fairy tales and an imaginary guy in the sky.

[fr0d0]

Well story goes he was illiterate and dictated it. Nonetheless it is part of Islamic belief that the Quran is actually the direct word of God. Christianity makes no such claim. How can it with the books only agreed upon 400 years after Christ??

Saying that God is man made is just a figure of speech. "Divinely inspired" says the same thing. Of course man had to discover it. Man had to hear it and write it down. Man had to work out if it made logical sense to man or not.


Here's your crazy statement I was referring to: "There is no religion without God"

You don't include Buddhism as a religion then??