Christ's birthday

[Craveman]

What are you interested in? Why I originally believed in God? Why I initially became a Christian? Why I still believe in God? Why I still am a Christian? All of the above?

All of the above please

[Edwardo Piet]

Me too. All of the above. I'm interested in all those questions.

EvF

[Darwinian]

What are you interested in? Why I originally believed in God? Why I initially became a Christian? Why I still believe in God? Why I still am a Christian? All of the above?

At Cornell University they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the tunneling electron microscope. Now, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe.

rjh4, if I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate my interest in why you believe in God.

[Violet]

Why do I need faith to believe in nothing?

Italic?

[rjh4 is back]

At Cornell University they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the tunneling electron microscope. Now, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe.

rjh4, if I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate my interest in why you believe in God.

Fair enough, Darwinian, but you did not ask for my reasons, Craveman did and EvF indicated he was interested also (maybe for laughs on their part but I will answer anyway). So since you are not interested, Darwinian, you can stop reading now.


When I was about 18, I took a look around me, saw the complexity of life and in that instant I decided that there had to be a God. Was I raised in a Christian home? Sort of but up to that point in my life I was more agnostic than anything. Did I consider all the naturalistic points of view available at the time to explain life? No, it was admittedly a leap of faith given the complexity I saw around me.

Shortly thereafter I actually joined a cult to the displeasure of my family who continued to point me to the Bible and Jesus Christ. So after about a year in the cult I read some blatant inconsistencies about the cult, researched to see if the inconsistencies were real, and finding them real, I put my trust in Jesus. Did I consider all religions and/or world views before I made this decision? No, again it was admittedly a leap of faith.

Since becoming a Christian, it has been a long time now, I can tell you that I know God exists because of my experience with Him. Is any of it proveable to you? No. I'm just explaining what I know even though I cannot really explain how I know this.

As for why I continue to believe in God and why I am still a Christian, I will point to an article by Cornelius Van Til called "Why I Believe in God". I ran across this the other day and I think it explains what I think better than I could explain it myself. (Of course what he says about the early years does not apply to me but the rest does.)

So now you know and, if appropriate, you can have your laughs now.

[Tiberius]

So you admit that the only reason you believe in God is through leaps of faith without actually doing any research into why things are complex, or why other people believe other things.

You also admit that you cannot "prove" God to us, so it is strange that you say you "know" God exists. If you know God exists, you must have some proof of his existence. But like you said, you know even though you cannot explain how you know...so in reality, you *don't* know.

Your logic is impeccable.

[rjh4 is back]

So you admit that the only reason you believe in God is through leaps of faith without actually doing any research into why things are complex, or why other people believe other things.

You also admit that you cannot "prove" God to us, so it is strange that you say you "know" God exists. If you know God exists, you must have some proof of his existence. But like you said, you know even though you cannot explain how you know...so in reality, you *don't* know.

Your logic is impeccable.

No, I said that the reasons why I initially began to believe in God and Christianity involved leaps of faith. I pointed to the article for reasons why I still believe. Did you read it? I really do think our differences all come down to our presuppositions.

I do admit that I cannot prove God to you to your satisfaction, I don't think I ever said otherwise. Any proof that I have so as to convince me that I know God exists certainly would not be satisfactory to you because it is not anything testable in a scientific way. So while you say I don't know, I still say I do.

As for my logic, did I ever say my reasons fit some logical proposition? I'm sure you have heard all the best logical reasons for God because I have seen you mention TAG here. If that doesn't convince you, then I'm not sure anything will. Anyway, if you do ever decide to take that leap of faith, you will know what I mean.

[Edwardo Piet]

Why take a leap of faith in the first place? If you had evidence then you wouldn't need faith. Why "Have faith" in the first place? It's baseless is it not? An irrational thing to do?

EvF

[Darwinian]

Fair enough, Darwinian, but you did not ask for my reasons, Craveman did and EvF indicated he was interested also (maybe for laughs on their part but I will answer anyway). So since you are not interested, Darwinian, you can stop reading now.

I've been waiting for ages to paraphrase that quote from Frasier and I couldn't resist

I was only have a little joke with you

[rjh4 is back]

Why take a leap of faith in the first place? If you had evidence then you wouldn't need faith. Why "Have faith" in the first place? It's baseless is it not? An irrational thing to do?

EvF

It was a leap of faith based on what I saw and recognized at the time. God did not appear to me so it still required faith. Was it irrational? You would probably say so but it was probably the most rational thing I have ever done in retrospect. I can tell you that I have never regretted my leap.