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RE: Christ's birthday
October 27, 2009 at 11:32 am
rjh4 Wrote:I still am unclear as to what your point is because the god you are describing here does not appear to be the God of the Bible. Have you really read the Bible? The God in the Bible is a warmonger, sexist, egotistical, unfair and promotes slavery to name a few. I suggest you go and read the Bible again (especially the OT).
Quote:It is true that the God of the Bible is loving and merciful, but He is also just and judge.
This is my point. The God of the Bible is not merciful. A merciful God would not have killed all those people for nothing. It would have made more sense for God to sacrifice his only son earlier instead of drowning all those people. Why the delay?
Quote: So the fact that God created hell is not inconsistent with the God of the Bible.
No, it just confirms what a prick he is.
Quote:As for the animals, I do not see how this is relevant at all. Have you ever killed anything? A fly, a mosquito, a mouse, an ant? I'm quite sure that a person cannot live to your age and not have done that. Does that make you unloving or immoral? I don't think so.
God killed thousands of animals just because he didn't like the idea that some people sinned and didn't worship him (even though he created them this way). That is not loving and fair so I do think it is relevant.
Quote:So I think the problem here so far is not inconsistencies in the Bible but your misconception of who and what the God of the Bible is
You obviously havn't read the Bible properly then. Do so, then we can talk again. Maybe you will come to have the same "misconseptions" as I have.
Spinoza Wrote:God is the Asylum of Ignorance
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 27, 2009 at 3:17 pm
The biblical god (capital G not included for obvious reasons) is as loving and merciful as Hitler was to the Jews. The bible presents him as the alpha and omega of all things and the creator of mankind who is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. While at the same time the bible is chock full of texts in the O.T. that refute all of these claims of his supernatural attributes.
The bible also likes to play the blame game. For example: god is good, loving, forbearing, patient, and wants everyone to be saved. But, man is at fault for every bit of evil in the world because of his disobedience to the holy tyrant who gives us free will to choose to serve him completely or suffer eternal torment. Then the bible goes on and calls this wonderful opportunity free will.
Not to mention how Christians like to try to justify the many massacres the biblical god perpetrated or ordered through the Hebrews against mankind by saying such stupid things as "who are we to question god?" or "he is the lord he can do as he pleases" or "god does everything for a reason" or even better yet " we brought this on ourselves".
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 28, 2009 at 12:42 pm
chatpilot:
Everyone plays the 'blame game' it just sounds wrong because of the way you worded it. Is it wrong for a Court to 'play the blame game' when saying a murderer is guilty of murder?
Do you have a right to life? From where does that right come?
Mark Taylor: "Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make room for doubt and those who do not."
Einstein: “The most unintelligible thing about nature is that it is intelligible”
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 28, 2009 at 5:14 pm
(October 27, 2009 at 11:32 am)Craveman Wrote: God killed thousands of animals just because he didn't like the idea that some people sinned and didn't worship him (even though he created them this way). That is not loving and fair so I do think it is relevant.
Are you a vegetarian, Craveman?
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 28, 2009 at 5:25 pm
(October 28, 2009 at 5:14 pm)rjh4 Wrote: (October 27, 2009 at 11:32 am)Craveman Wrote: God killed thousands of animals just because he didn't like the idea that some people sinned and didn't worship him (even though he created them this way). That is not loving and fair so I do think it is relevant.
Are you a vegetarian, Craveman?
Rjh4,
Everyone knows that animals raised for meat are selected because of their genetic evilness so all of them deserve to die. *GRIN*
That is a funny point by the way; God can't kill innocent animals but we can! YAY humans!
Rhizo
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 28, 2009 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2009 at 5:34 pm by Violet.)
Quote:Are you a vegetarian, Craveman?
Not that relevant to his point  He (God) slaughtered everything around Sodom and Gomorra for instance... that would include innocent 'deer in the forest'... who were simply not as favored by 'God' as were the humans. The bible doesn't even MENTION the non-human animals residing in and around Sodom and Gomorra...
And it turns out that other animals are just as alive as us... many of them feel pain just like us... a handful of them even have the ability to recognize their reflection. It is preposterous that other creatures don't deserve many of the rights we have... after all: how will we explain this barbaric and little controlled animal consumption to the aliens? Or will those aliens decide that we taste just right?
Simply... we need to reconsider our approach to other animals native to our planet, lest we look like hypocrites and/or appear barbaric to other advance lifeforms, part. significantly advanced ones. I personally favor eating according to abundance and controlling populations so as to avoid population crashes [efficient long-term resource management](Humans have passed this limit already, and considering that birth rates have mostly been increasing: might have to suffer one of these themselves before they finally 'get' the concept)... but there are several other decent methods for changing our approach to the issues (and how we interpret them).
@Rhizo: ever heard of the flood?
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 28, 2009 at 5:51 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2009 at 5:53 pm by rjh4 is back.)
(October 28, 2009 at 5:34 pm)Saerules Wrote: Not that relevant to his point He (God) slaughtered everything around Sodom and Gomorra for instance... that would include innocent 'deer in the forest'... who were simply not as favored by 'God' as were the humans. The bible doesn't even MENTION the non-human animals residing in and around Sodom and Gomorra...
It absolutely is relevant. Craveman said God was not loving and fair because he cause animals to die. I'm wondering if Craveman's world view is consistent with this.
(October 28, 2009 at 5:34 pm)Saerules Wrote: And it turns out that other animals are just as alive as us... many of them feel pain just like us... a handful of them even have the ability to recognize their reflection. It is preposterous that other creatures don't deserve many of the rights we have... after all: how will we explain this barbaric and little controlled animal consumption to the aliens? Or will those aliens decide that we taste just right?
If you want to put animals on the same plane as humans go right ahead. But that is certainly not my view of things.
And by the way, I think the "Twilight Zone" did an episode about aliens eating humans. I cannot remember what the episode was called though. It was a good one.
(October 28, 2009 at 5:25 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Rjh4,
Everyone knows that animals raised for meat are selected because of their genetic evilness so all of them deserve to die. *GRIN*
Yep. 
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 28, 2009 at 5:58 pm
rjh4 Wrote: Are you a vegetarian, Craveman? LOL! I have absolutely NO idea where this question is going to lead to... 
There is a diffirence between selectively killing animals for food or just killing them for no reason so I don't see the relevance of your question. I get the idea that you don't give a fuck about animals anyway (glad I'm not a pet in your household)
In my original comment about God killing thousands, I was referring mostly to the people he killed for nothing. Since killing those animals for no good reason doesn't bother you, why don't you rather comment on why God killed all those people?
Spinoza Wrote:God is the Asylum of Ignorance
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 28, 2009 at 6:07 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2009 at 6:08 pm by Violet.)
rjh4 Wrote:It absolutely is relevant. Craveman said God was not loving and fair because he cause animals to die. I'm wondering if Craveman's world view is consistent with this. Wether Craveman cares about the lives of the animals is utterly irrelevant to if "God" does. So no, it isn't relevant to the point Craveman was making He is pointing out that a being who kills the innocent is most certainly not fair or merciful... and certainly had no love of the innocent.
Wonder what that says about 'God'... of all the relatively peaceful creatures that lives on Earth... why did he choose the race that has been responsible for more destruction than all of the other creatures on Earth combined? I think this is very telling about his nature
edit: lol, Crave... you posted that when I was writing this all up... meh, I'll leave it alone... I said the same things I think 
Quote:If you want to put animals on the same plane as humans go right ahead. But that is certainly not my view of things.
And by the way, I think the "Twilight Zone" did an episode about aliens eating humans. I cannot remember what the episode was called though. It was a good one.
??? Did I say that other animals are equal to us? Not that I can tell... I don't even hold all humans as equal to each other. Some of us are good at some things... others good at different things... still more of us good for nothing.
I do, however, feel that our collective treatment of other animals (simply because they are not of our brood)... is needlessly cruel and exceptionally unfair. We are in many qualities similar to other lifeforms... that we had a headstart in development does not detract the developments of others. I am just suggesting an overhaul in how we consider 'food' and the rights we give to other species (or the rights we do not give, to be more specific).
rhizo Wrote:Everyone knows that animals raised for meat are selected because of their genetic evilness so all of them deserve to die. *GRIN*
Humans could be quite the eating too, you know... or have you tried it already? We have killed other animals in cold blood, and then decided that they taste good enough to eat... I wonder why we do not do try the same with our dead?
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: Christ's birthday
October 28, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Solar my right to live does not come from your imaginary god. My parents gave me the right to live by accepting me and raising me and guiding me so that I may have a fighting chance in this life. Your god had nothing to do with that.
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