Christ's birthday

[chatpilot]

What is that question you need me to answer so desperately there fr0d0?

[fr0d0]

Well I'd almost forgotten!

God has left no proof because god does not exist.

How _would_ God 'exist'?

[chatpilot]

What I mean by exist is to be, in some form either physical or spiritual. But not only would that suffice but he would have to reveal himself to mankind not through some so called prophet, or books written long ago, but rather in some physical way that we may know him. My gripe with god and his existence is that to believe you have to suspend the requirement for proof and go solely on faith. Faith is not a valid nor reliable way to ascertain that god exist.

With something so important as eternity in the balance for example, faith falls short. You are gambling your entire life and freedom here on Earth to please a god whose existence is dubious at best. I do believe we only have one life to live and while we are here we should make the most of it and enjoy every minute that we are allowed to "exist" on this planet. That is why I am completely opposed to Pascals wager. If you believe you gain eternity but if there is nothing there you have nothing to lose? In fact you have everything to lose when you give up this life for the hopes of a better life after this one in a place (heaven or New Jerusalem) you cannot possibly be sure even exist.

When Thomas doubted the stories regarding the resurrection of Jesus, He came in person and let him put his fingers in his wounds and his hand in his side. Although Thomas was chastised for requiring proof your lord at least gave it to him. Being omnipresent (everywhere all the time) I don't see this as such a hard task for the lord to fulfill to all those that seek him. Belief in him requires faith and not evidence but this sort of defeats the purpose of acquiring adherents when after seeing the evidence the adherent may acquire faith or not. But if he doesn't even after having seen the evidence then his condemnation will be upon his own head.

Faith is not sufficient enough to satisfy a thinker.

[rjh4 is back]

In fact you have everything to lose when you give up this life for the hopes of a better life after this one in a place (heaven or New Jerusalem) you cannot possibly be sure even exist.

Chatpiolot, I am curious as to what you think one really loses when one becomes a Christian.

[chatpilot]

rjh4 being a real Christian in my view is not about simply stating that you believe and accept Jesus as your lord and savior, it requires some changes in the way you live and in how you think. It's easy for anyone to profess Christianity but it is a whole different matter trying to live according to the scriptures. Everything that is natural to our species is a sin: fornication, lying, lusting (women or others good fortune or property), idolatry which in my view most catholics are guilty of. It's true that the aforementioned acts are not good but my argument is that they are natural.

Anyone who tells me that he or she has never told a lie in their entire lives I would dismiss outright. Premarital sex is something that is common place here in the U.S. Men lust after women and vice versa on a daily basis. With the diversity of cultures residing in the world idolatry is the norm for most people. Envy is something that happens all the time on a small or large scale.

Trying to live a life according to gods rules is impossible but just the trying is a major sacrifice in and of itself. Someone who tells me they are Christians and live life just like the rest of us eating, drinking, and being merry with the certainty that tomorrow we die is not a Christian in my opinion. A Christians ultimate goal is to be Christ like in every aspect of his or her life and if that person is not willing to make those sacrifices then he is not a Christian. It's ironic how Jesus sacrificed his life for us according to the scriptures but at the same time serving Christ requires that you do the same. In closing to answer your question in one sentence you lose your freedom to enjoy this life to the fullest doing what makes you happy.

Jesus allegedly said it best: John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

[downbeatplumb]

In fact you have everything to lose when you give up this life for the hopes of a better life after this one in a place (heaven or New Jerusalem) you cannot possibly be sure even exist.

Chatpiolot, I am curious as to what you think one really loses when one becomes a Christian.

Let me butt in for a second.

I'd go with objectivity.

[chatpilot]

downbeatplumb, I agree. Somehow though Christians don't seem to understand the concept of objectivity.

[fr0d0]

What I mean by exist is to be, in some form either physical or spiritual. But not only would that suffice but he would have to reveal himself to mankind not through some so called prophet, or books written long ago, but rather in some physical way that we may know him. My gripe with god and his existence is that to believe you have to suspend the requirement for proof and go solely on faith. Faith is not a valid nor reliable way to ascertain that god exist.

You're not talking of the Christan God here... I believe we've done this dance before ...with chatty's make believe god which again only goes to prove that chatty has no real objection to Christianity because he has no understanding of it.

With something so important as eternity in the balance for example, faith falls short. You are gambling your entire life and freedom here on Earth to please a god whose existence is dubious at best. I do believe we only have one life to live and while we are here we should make the most of it and enjoy every minute that we are allowed to "exist" on this planet.

There is no 'gamble'. Belief in God results in life now.

Faith is not sufficient enough to satisfy a thinker.

Quite the contrary. Faith is enough to confound the non thinker.

[theVOID]

Faith is not sufficient enough to satisfy a thinker.

Quite the contrary. Faith is enough to confound the non thinker.

What makes you think being a 'non thinker' is a characteristic worthy of anything more than ridicule and contempt? These idiots who don't think and question are the ones who hold society back, regardless of religious/philosophical position,

[chatpilot]

fr0d0 wrote: You're not talking of the Christan God here.

What part do you disagree with his existence as a spiritual or physical entity or his being revealed to mankind through so called prophets and ancient texts written long ago? Or does your god only exist outside of time and space in some transcendental realm?

fr0d0 wrote: There is no 'gamble'. Belief in God results in life now.

So you don't believe that the end result of your faith in god now would be rewarded with eternal life and bliss later?

fr0d0 wrote: Quite the contrary. Faith is enough to confound the non thinker.

Faith is enough for the thinker to see that Christianity is no different than all of the other myths before it. On the contrary if anyone here is a non thinker it is the believer because faith requires that you just accept it without thinking. The thinking has already been done for you god just is and that is all you need to know.