Federal Government Shutdown

[Airyaman]

According to jackass Airheadman, the democrats are responsible.

That's what I like about this board...if someone happens to disagree with your viewpoint, then the name calling starts. I'm glad I teach my children to act with more manners but I can do nothing with adults who don't know better. Anyways...

Both parties are responsible. Obamacare should not be part of the CR or even the debt ceiling debate, but they are using them as leverage. However, Reid and Obama are refusing to work with the GOP at all, so they are showing that the calls of compromise are just for shits and giggles.

Let's just disregard the horrific compromise of ObamaCare to embrace the GOP approved RomneyCare, the debt ceiling crisis, the concerted effort to sequester, the Bush Years rhetoric and marginalization of Democrats in favor of the Republicans...

Nope, all democrats.

Yes Airyaman -- you are part of the fucking problem.

By refusing to recognize the concept of being reciprocal.

You call down the thunder, now reap the whirlwind.

What whirlwind? I simply see a bunch of partisan hacks on both sides in Washington. I see one side that is at least willing to try to work things out, and one side that thinks that just because they won some key elections that we must all accept everything they do.

Obama gave exemptions to companies on the healthcare mandate. He did not extend this to individuals. Why? I thought Obama was for the common man and against big business? For months on end we heard about "fairness". No, we can see he still serves special interests like any other politician, and screws the middle class.

[Isun]

As has already been pointed out, the democrats are already compromising by setting for sequester level temporary funding. Also, the republicans are demanding what the people do not want. privatized medicare, lower taxes. Cut funding for all social programs. etc etc. In other words the people have already spoken by electing Obama and not Romney.

That isn't asking for a compromise. That is demanding their way or shut down the government. Obama cannot be a part of that kind of extortion. And that is exactly what the republicans are doing.

They had plenty of time for compromise. The senate had past a budget a half year ago and the republican's refused to come to conference because they were more interested in shutting down the government then they were in finding a solution.

[Airyaman]

I fail to see how adhering to the spending caps from the Budget Control Act of 2011 is "compromise".

"Here's our compromise: we're going to continue living by the laws we've established". Wow.

Edit: Correction I do see that the Senate CR is $80 billion lower, so you are correct.

I do want to know why Obama chose to allow a one year delay for the mandate on businesses but did not extend that to all people. Not saying this is a good reason to hold up the CR, but he could just extend the delay to all and leave the GOP somewhat emptier handed.

[DeistPaladin]

So when I hear Yanks go on blaming one of the two major parties, I simply laugh. Why should your children's children be the ones paying for your current government and your current lifestyle?? Well, if you have a government in the USA right now, today, they're the ones that are going to be paying the bill for you. It's fucking disgusting. And if China, or Japan were to liquidate their bonds, then your grandchildren would have a lifetime of total financial depression to look forward to.

No one is suggesting the debt isn't a problem that needs to be addressed ...except the Republicans when they're in power. There's a pattern we've seen in this country in the last 30 years and it's something we need to keep in mind as the GOP feigns such grave concerns for our grandchildren.

• Republican in the White House: "Deficits don't matter! Spend money on all the things conservatives love! Wars! Defense spending! Corporate giveaways! War on Drugs! Cut taxes for the rich! Wheeeee!"
  
• Democrat in the White House: "OMG! OMG! Where did all this debt come from? Quick! Slash and burn all the liberal programs now!"
  

Think I'm exaggerating? Look at the recent history:

Reagan tripled the debt and HW Bush was equally unable to balance his budget. When Clinton came into power, he was forced to deal with the problem. He had to give up all the things he campaigned on and instead focused on cutting spending and bringing down the debt. As a result, he created a surplus.

W Bush ran against that surplus with the campaign platform "it's not their money, it's your money". Once in office, he made good on his promise and slashed taxes for the rich. He also ran two wars off the books, gave away sweet no-bid contracts to his corporate friends and passed a budget-busting corporate giveaway in Medicare Part D. His grand finale was giving away 700 billion in bailouts to banks, needed as a result of the economy he crashed.

Then Obama comes into office and we're back to "OMG! Where did this debt come from? Won't someone think of our grandchildren?"

On The Table: Only Liberal Programs
Ever notice that during all this hand-wringing over cutting spending, the big elephant in the room is never talked about: our bloated Cold War defense budget.

Currently, the US spends more than the next four nations combined and doubled. We could cut the Pentagon's budget in half and still be ahead of the next four nations, two of which (UK and France) are our allies. The Soviet Union is long gone but we're still running in the arms race all by ourselves. The Military-Industrial complex isn't about to let its gravy train go and no politician wants to "look weak".

Then there's all the corporate welfare. It's nothing less than insanity when we talk about taking food stamps away from the hungry (which, by the way, is the best economic bang-for-the-buck kind of government spending) and yet we still have oil subsidies for the most profitable businesses in our history.

I'd like to also discuss the War on Drugs, which has made the US per capita prison population #1 in the world. [sarcasm] On the plus side, it's an easy way to target blacks and other minorities, who statistically aren't any more likely to use drugs but far more likely to get prosecuted for it. As a bonus, most states don't allow ex-cons to vote, so you can knock all those blacks and hispanics off the voter rolls if they have a drug conviction. It's a hidden way to continue Jim Crow. Isn't that a plus? [/sarcasm]

Last but not least, there's the tax cuts for the rich which were supposed to stimulate the economy and trickle down to the rest of us. In reality, the money trickled off into offshore bank accounts. We've tried Reagonomics for 30 years now. It's time to admit it doesn't work and the rich need to pay their fair share of the sacrifice needed to get our budget under control.

As long as there's enough money for all the above things, the American people do no owe one damn dime in austerity cuts. The above gets cut first!

The Debt Ceiling
It's important for foreigners (and Americans) to know that the debt ceiling is about honoring and paying for the debt we already have racked up. To not raise the debt ceiling is to refuse to pay the bills.

I wish I could do that.

"Dear creditors,
I regret to inform you that we will not be paying our debts because we've created an artificial number we call our family's 'debt ceiling'. That number restricts how much money we can use to pay the debts we've already run up. I'm trying to convince my wife to agree to raise that debt ceiling but there are things she wants in return that I'm not yet ready to agree to. So please just keep your collection efforts on hold until you hear back from me. I'm sure you understand. Since our government can do this, I figure it's OK for us to do it as well."

[Isun]

Every year there is a delay the more likely the affordable health care will never happen. The republicans have made sure there is constant emergencies by giving small. debt increases guaranteeing there will always be this manufactured crisis. They will delay it year after year or shut the economy down. For the good of the country Obama cannot allow it.

[Manowar]

It's been what 5 days now. I am 100% against the shutdown, but I can't believe the Rep have the balls for keeping the shutdown going this long, i think this might really hurt them. Any bets? I say it won't last longer than 2 weeks

Manowar

[Nightfoot92]

I am just fucking sick of the political greed running rampant in this country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cuYc9HqiK4

[Minimalist]

It's been what 5 days now. I am 100% against the shutdown, but I can't believe the Rep have the balls for keeping the shutdown going this long, i think this might really hurt them. Any bets? I say it won't last longer than 2 weeks

Manowar

They've painted themselves into a corner and don't know how to get out.

[Rev. Rye]

It's been what 5 days now. I am 100% against the shutdown, but I can't believe the Rep have the balls for keeping the shutdown going this long, i think this might really hurt them. Any bets? I say it won't last longer than 2 weeks

Manowar

If it does continue into the two-week point, after we run off the fiscal cliff, I think it's likely that the Republican Party will lose even more credibility even faster than it has been doing in the past couple years.

[Airyaman]

The shutdown is stupid, but both sides have some skin in the game. My biggest issue with the shutdown is that the administration is trying its hardest to increase the pain that otherwise wouldn't exist. Law enforcement is being sent to several entities that have never been closed before during a shutdown and forcing closures. This goes beyond monuments and national parks, they are trying to close down anything that is on federal land even if it is a private entity or operated with state or local funding.

The employees furloughed will get back pay, and the extra security being sent to places never secured this heavily before is actually going to cost us more money. Its a petty and childish move, but it will be overlooked because most of the media will ignore it.