Atheists and Agnostics risk infinite loss for no gain

[themonkeyman]

You cannot believe something in which you simply do not believe just 'to be on the safe side'. That is an absolute nonsense!

I certainly agree with you on that.

But it does make sense to investigate if God exists.

That is the point of my use of Pascal's wager.

I will state an argument for the God of the Holy Bible.

Some atheists and agnostics do believe for real in Jesus Christ.

*Some Athiests and Agnostics do believe for real in JC*.

Word Theist is someone who believes.

an A-Thiest is the opposite of theist.


Word Hole is to describe a pit.

So A-Hole describes yourself sir and the stuff you are speaking.

[Doubting Thomas]

SavedByGraceThruFaith, what makes you think I want to worship a god which would threaten me with eternal torture? I suppose you think this god of yours is also a "god of love," don't you? What you don't realize is that saying "love God or face eternal hell" is like an abuser holding a gun to a woman's head and saying, "Marry me or I'll kill you." Either way you don't go into that relationship willingly and with honest love and devotion. It's all about fear. So why would I want to worship a being I have to be afraid of?

This, aside from the fact that it doesn't prove a god's existence, is why Pascal's Wager fails. Because even if it were valid, you're still worshiping a monster.

[themonkeyman]

Christians' seemingly endless supply of bumper sticker spirituality is a wonder to behold. I suppose the people who were burned at the stake or "converted" at the end of a sword took comfort knowing that belief was a menu option.

No need to play the No True Scotsman card -- I know, I know: you're not like the bad old Christians. That isn't the point. To think that Hell isn't a threat is ridiculous. "Believe as I do and you won't be tormented for eternity." Yeah, let's see, fries or onion rings today?

Of course, you haven't given me one good reason to believe in this God or hell.

Jesus Christ warned about fake Christians doing bad things.
That prediction acme true.
One point for the Holy Bible.

Matthew 7:15-16
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Here is what Jesus Christ instructed.

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

---

Huh? Calculating the odds against the existence of God? What the fuck does that even mean? This isn't craps. "An analysis of the facts will show the odds are greatly against the atheist being correct"? Really? Am I supposed to take your word for it? Obviously so since you haven't bothered to actually make this analysis.

As others have said, Pascal's Wager is a transparently bad argument. The Muslim can use it as justifiably (that is to say, not at all) as the Christian. And of course you could both be wrong: What if God values and rewards/condemns not on the basis of silly superstitions and bad reasoning but on the basis of intellectual integrity? Then, my friend, you are screwed.

The Christian's last stand: when all else fails, threaten them with Hell. Pathetic.

If an atheist posits that there in some God to defeat Pascal's wager, the atheist has just contradicted them self. So that argument does not defeat Pascal's wager.

I will take your point back as from what I see - Jesus did not return in his Glory!

[Searching4truth]

A person of logic and reason cant make themself believe in something that they naturally dont. And even if we could, your Bible says that Jesus says if you dont absolutely know him, he will cast you away even if youve done nothing but positive things in his name. Once again I'll reiterate that I cant make myself believe in something I dont. Even if I did, who's to say YOUR god is the real way to heaven. How much longer will you live in ignorance, my friend?

[max-greece]

As DT said - "Love me or else" shows a complete lack of understanding of what love is. Your God is a cretin.

[Zazzy]

I am waiting for John Frum to return- and won't all you losers be sorry when he returns in all his glory bringing gifts for the faithful and you get squat.

Be warned, you Christians. John Frum will deal with you most harshly.

[themonkeyman]

SavedByGraceThruFaith, what makes you think I want to worship a god which would threaten me with eternal torture? I suppose you think this god of yours is also a "god of love," don't you? What you don't realize is that saying "love God or face eternal hell" is like an abuser holding a gun to a woman's head and saying, "Marry me or I'll kill you." Either way you don't go into that relationship willingly and with honest love and devotion. It's all about fear. So why would I want to worship a being I have to be afraid of?

This, aside from the fact that it doesn't prove a god's existence, is why Pascal's Wager fails. Because even if it were valid, you're still worshiping a monster.

Il back up @DoubtingThomas and add the fact that if God is as he is protrayed in the Bible. How do you know eternity in heaven is a better alternative. Simply put you become a literal 'Slave' so in heaven there will be no - Friends / Family / Happy Clubs / Hang Outs just worship God day and night for eternity.

And considering what happened to Satan how do you know that if you step of out line once that God wont cast you to eternity in hell?

See Understand that God as portrayed in the bible doesn't really make up his mind and is quite clueless in many parts. The fact God regretted his own creation in Genesis is proof that God obviously cannot know the future otherwise why would he regret it?

[max-greece]

There's a wonderful Steven Fry quote that this reminds me of. He was on a guided tour being led by a Mormon who started to talk about heaven - where you will be re-united with your whole family.

Then Steven asked - "Yes - but what do you get if you've been good?"

Apparently they threw him off the tour.

[Psykhronic]

For some reason, I do not feel threatened by the idea of hell. It might have something to do with not believing in it, and something to do with how fucking stupid Pascal's Wager is.

[popeyespappy]

I thought Jesus paid that bill for you.

Damn but Christianity is a fucked up religion.

Already saved by the only Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Christianity is true if and only if the God of the Old Testament is true.
The God of the Old Testament is false.
Therefore Christianity is false.

We know the God of the Old Testament is false because the evidence tells us it is. To begin with the Old Testament itself is a work of fiction that evolved over time. Sure pieces of it have a basis in poorly remember or greatly embellished historical people and events, but those small pieces don’t make the rest of the book true. Much of the book was borrowed from other religions. Much of the Book of Genesis was borrowed from earlier Mesopotamian religion. This includes The Garden of Eden, Adam, the flat Earth, the concept of heaven and the Flood story. Much of the Book of Proverbs was originally Egyptian. Some of it copied nearly word for word.

The Exodus story simply never happened as written in the Bible. The Jewish people never lived as slaves in Egypt. Therefore they never left Egypt. The story of the young Moses is an adaptation of the story of King Sargon. The parting of the Red Sea has its roots in the Mesopotamian creation myth. The murder of the Egyptian overseer comes from the Egyptian Tale of Sinuhe. Even the Ten Commandments themselves are based on another earlier religion. Their origins are the Laws of Hammurabi.

Most agree the Book of Joshua is not an accurate historical account of the early history of Israel and the archeological record agrees. The conquest never happened. The cities of Ai, Jericho, Gibeon and Hazor were not all even occupied during that period in history. So they could not have been conquered during the same timeframe. The evidence tells us the Israelis didn’t conquer the Canaanites. They were the Canaanites. Their culture grew out of the local population from the remnants left after the Bronze Age collapse.

Yahweh himself is no different than any other theistic god in that he is a construct of the mind of people. He most likely began as a local deity and slowly grew over time into what he is purported to be now by taking on the attributes of other gods. He changed from a god of war into the creator slowly over time. The fact that he was accepted as just one god of many until just a few centuries before the Christian era is well documented in both the archeological record and even in the texts of the Abrahamic cults. He even had a consort.

The God of the Old Testament is not what many wish him to be. Without him, the God of the New Testament is just so much wishful thinking.