Atheists and Agnostics risk infinite loss for no gain

[JesusHChrist]

If there are multiple "believe or damned" choices, look fro the one that is true.

But that does not help the atheist or the agnostic and his risk of infinite loss.

Why don't you first start by demonstrating your tall tale is true?

Cart before the horse I'm afraid.

[Beta Ray Bill]

Here is what Jesus Christ instructed.

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

You said this quite a while ago, but I had to make a point on it, since I used the same quote in one of my threads:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-20938.html

I never thought I'd be telling a Bible-hugger that you're taking it out of context but that's just what happened. Read the full quote:

“You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? (Matthew 5:43-47 )

There is much more to this scripture than just what you posted. Let me tell you how I analyzed it:

a) Don't follow the law, love your enemies. Can do!
b) Asking God to help your enemies is the proper way to do things. That just feels empty. I'd feel greater satisfaction if I did the helping, not God.
c) God rewards and punishes the good and the bad evenly. So, what's the difference? If neither way has the upper hand, why are there commandments?
d) I thought we were supposed to love our enemies. Why is Jesus bad-mouthing corrupt tax collectors? Is that showing love for a common enemy?
e) So if you're kind to people that aren't your friends, you are better than anybody else? That just feels kinda wrong to me.

This scripture, as with a lot more of the stuff from the Bible, is flawed. It makes little sense, and shows that Jesus was a bigoted man, just like everyone else.

So, don't preach to me, kind sir, unless you are willing to explain the true meanings of everything you say.

[max-greece]

But that does not help the atheist or the agnostic and his risk of infinite loss.

Okay, I pointed this out to you several pages ago, complete with an infographic, so I can only assume you just ignored it because you can't refute it, like a good coward would, but you also are risking infinite loss.

Didn't believe in the muslim god and they turned out to be correct? Whoops, hell!

Are you a protestant and the catholic god is correct? Whoops, hell!

What if you die and find that god really hates Pascal's Wager? Whoops, hell!

You are risking just as much as we are. How hard is this to understand?

And "oi vey" what if the Jews were right all along?

And it it was the Greeks....better take a coin for the ferryman.

[Doubting Thomas]

But that does not help the atheist or the agnostic and his risk of infinite loss.

Okay, I pointed this out to you several pages ago, complete with an infographic, so I can only assume you just ignored it because you can't refute it, like a good coward would, but you also are risking infinite loss.

Didn't believe in the muslim god and they turned out to be correct? Whoops, hell!

Are you a protestant and the catholic god is correct? Whoops, hell!

What if you die and find that god really hates Pascal's Wager? Whoops, hell!

You are risking just as much as we are. How hard is this to understand?

That's because Pascal's Wager presupposes that Christianity is the one true religion and it never occurs to Christians proposing PW that any other religion could be the one true religion (because obviously all those others are just heathen religions invented by Satan).

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Okay, I pointed this out to you several pages ago, complete with an infographic, so I can only assume you just ignored it because you can't refute it, like a good coward would, but you also are risking infinite loss.

Didn't believe in the muslim god and they turned out to be correct? Whoops, hell!

Are you a protestant and the catholic god is correct? Whoops, hell!

What if you die and find that god really hates Pascal's Wager? Whoops, hell!

You are risking just as much as we are. How hard is this to understand?

And "oi vey" what if the Jews were right all along?

And it it was the Greeks....better take a coin for the ferryman.

I did answer this at least twice already.

If there are multiple believe or damned choices, then the atheist and agnostic is damned if any are true.
So there is no difference in Pascal's wager for atheists and agnostics.

For the believer of God, a choice must be made. There is only one clear choice. So the believer again has no difference in Pascal's wager.

---

Okay, I pointed this out to you several pages ago, complete with an infographic, so I can only assume you just ignored it because you can't refute it, like a good coward would, but you also are risking infinite loss.

Didn't believe in the muslim god and they turned out to be correct? Whoops, hell!

Are you a protestant and the catholic god is correct? Whoops, hell!

What if you die and find that god really hates Pascal's Wager? Whoops, hell!

You are risking just as much as we are. How hard is this to understand?

That's because Pascal's Wager presupposes that Christianity is the one true religion and it never occurs to Christians proposing PW that any other religion could be the one true religion (because obviously all those others are just heathen religions invented by Satan).

Pascal's wager says to consider that there is God.

There are many different versions of God and salvation to consider.

Only the Holy Bible will prove to be true.

[Minimalist]

[quote='SavedByGraceThruFaith' pid='515043' dateline='1380629886']
Here is what Jesus Christ instructed.

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Like most xtian shit, stolen from the Greeks.

"Do not do to your neighbor what you would take ill from him."

Pitticus of Mytilene d. 568 BC

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

[quote='SavedByGraceThruFaith' pid='515043' dateline='1380629886']
Here is what Jesus Christ instructed.

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Like most xtian shit, stolen from the Greeks.

"Do not do to your neighbor what you would take ill from him."

Pitticus of Mytilene d. 568 BC

The golden rule is there in multiple religions and philosophies.

I am not sure about "love your enemies"

That is beyond the golden rule.

[Cyberman]

That's because Pascal's Wager presupposes that Christianity is the one true religion and it never occurs to Christians proposing PW that any other religion could be the one true religion (because obviously all those others are just heathen religions invented by Satan).

I think it does occur to them; they just hope it doesn't occur to you.

[bladevalant546]

Here is what Jesus Christ instructed.

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

You said this quite a while ago, but I had to make a point on it, since I used the same quote in one of my threads:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-20938.html

I never thought I'd be telling a Bible-hugger that you're taking it out of context but that's just what happened. Read the full quote:

“You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? (Matthew 5:43-47 )

There is much more to this scripture than just what you posted. Let me tell you how I analyzed it:

a) Don't follow the law, love your enemies. Can do!
b) Asking God to help your enemies is the proper way to do things. That just feels empty. I'd feel greater satisfaction if I did the helping, not God.
c) God rewards and punishes the good and the bad evenly. So, what's the difference? If neither way has the upper hand, why are there commandments?
d) I thought we were supposed to love our enemies. Why is Jesus bad-mouthing corrupt tax collectors? Is that showing love for a common enemy?
e) So if you're kind to people that aren't your friends, you are better than anybody else? That just feels kinda wrong to me.

This scripture, as with a lot more of the stuff from the Bible, is flawed. It makes little sense, and shows that Jesus was a bigoted man, just like everyone else.

So, don't preach to me, kind sir, unless you are willing to explain the true meanings of everything you say.

While I do not disagree with your assertion on the bible as flawed. I do not see any negativity with this verse at all. Granted this only beckons the flaws of interpretation anyway but here it goes.

a) Don't follow the law, love your enemies. Can do!

(well we can agree here being kind to even your enemies is a good thing to do.)

b) Asking God to help your enemies is the proper way to do things. That just feels empty. I'd feel greater satisfaction if I did the helping, not God.

(Well according to their religion praying in effect is effective. With that said, under that world view that is a good thing. You are basically thinking good thoughts (since prayer is just mental anyway) towards your persecutors. So here I find it noble that someone would wish good things even on their enemies.)

c) God rewards and punishes the good and the bad evenly. So, what's the difference? If neither way has the upper hand, why are there commandments?

(That really just means god provides basic needs for anyone, most likely to demonstrate the concept of love and mercy. Granted OT contradicts this god Jesus speaks of.)

d) I thought we were supposed to love our enemies. Why is Jesus bad-mouthing corrupt tax collectors? Is that showing love for a common enemy?

(How is he bad-mouthing them, roman tax collectors were considered scum in that day. They basically took more than was asked so they could line their own pockets. It is a cultural term because people can relate a concept to that word. Very common practice among public speakers by the way, watch a politician or speaker talk sometime. You will find they will do this too.

e) So if you're kind to people that aren't your friends, you are better than anybody else? That just feels kinda wrong to me.

(Well oddly enough you just thrown out a verse that is wonderful to use against hypocritical Christians. The anaology here is basically saying, most people are dicks so do not be a dick and you will not be most people. Kinda hard to see how that is misunderstood.

I say these things because I have education in biblical studies and what not. I am not debating on the validity of the biblical texts, I just felt there was some bias in your interpretation. Then again that is an issue with the bible right? Always people adding their interpretation? In short I agree with your main point Beta Ray Bill (awesome comic BTW), reading the text in cultural context is important.

[Doubting Thomas]

For the believer of God, a choice must be made. There is only one clear choice. So the believer again has no difference in Pascal's wager.

You're still dodging the question. Why don't you follow all religions and worship all gods just to make sure you get the right one? You're assuming that you've chosen the only right one.

Pascal's wager says to consider that there is God.

I spent the first 30 years of my life not only considering it, but believing it wholeheartedly.

There are many different versions of God and salvation to consider.

Only the Holy Bible will prove to be true.

Baseless assertion. Please prove your statement.