Posts: 957
Threads: 1
Joined: October 10, 2013
Reputation:
2
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 9:17 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 8:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Current cells are dependent upon current membranes. That you think this must have always have been the case just goes to show you haven't taken the time to educate yourself on the subject you feel qualified to opine upon. I have no qualms stating, upfront, that I am no biologist. If you were even nearly as knowledgeable as you clearly imagine yourself to be..then why should -I- (or anyone) have to or be capable of educating -you- on some basic shit? You need to reassess, and it shouldn't take any specialized knowledge for you to come to that realization yourself. not looking for excuses; perhaps you don't understand the assignment.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
Posts: 19632
Threads: 177
Joined: July 31, 2012
Reputation:
92
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 9:25 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2015 at 9:31 pm by pocaracas.)
Snow, can you understand big numbers?
Big, as in billions and trillions... can you grasp intuitively the difference between ten billion and ten trillion?
You can? Then you're greater then most. I can't.
Still, I can understand that simple cell membranes could have formed spontaneously, naturally, under some conditions.
Given the tiny nature of these membranes and probable vast reach of the conditions required, it is reasonable that many many many trillions of such membranes got created.
A few of these could have enveloped some extra proteins that's giving rise to the first cell you claim to be impossible.
If there were many proteins flotation around and many membranes being formed, or stands to reason that some could actually have overlapped...
Do remember also that there were no predators, nothing that would destroy a stable structure... Given enough time and enough membranes, things just happened, and you got lots of cells.
Big numbers means that very unlikely events do end up happening.
Posts: 1164
Threads: 7
Joined: January 1, 2014
Reputation:
23
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 9:30 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 8:15 pm)snowtracks Wrote: wonderful. now, what about the cell membrane and cell evolving at same time but each dependent upon the other? Where do you get the silly idea that the internal complexity of the cell and cell membrane somehow had to evolve at the same time?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordial_soup
The first replicators are thought to have arisen in some way (currently unknown, not impossible) sometime in the first billion years after earth formed. They were replicating molecules, not cells. Replicating molecules don't have exoskeletons. They don't fossilize.
The successful ones persisted and expanded their domains, but they were in solution, not cells. Somewhere in the next BILLION to BILLION AND A HALF years, prokaryotes occurred. We see zillions of these around today, happily replicating for the last several BILLION years. Prokaryotes are bags of replicators. So at the soup to prokaryote transformation, you didn't have two separate evolutions intersecting. You had the replicating soup which all of a sudden(sic) invented the bag to hold itself in.
Over the next three quarters of a BILLION years the prokaryotes descended with modification and eventually, almost 2,000,000,000 years ago left indications that they had developed internal mechanisms to a sufficient degree that we can call them eukaryotes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o...ry_of_life
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
Posts: 957
Threads: 1
Joined: October 10, 2013
Reputation:
2
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 10:32 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 9:25 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Snow, can you understand big numbers?
Big, as in billions and trillions... can you grasp intuitively the difference between ten billion and ten trillion?
You can? Then you're greater then most. I can't.
Still, I can understand that simple cell membranes could have formed spontaneously, naturally, under some conditions.
Given the tiny nature of these membranes and probable vast reach of the conditions required, it is reasonable that many many many trillions of such membranes got created.
A few of these could have enveloped some extra proteins that's giving rise to the first cell you claim to be impossible.
If there were many proteins flotation around and many membranes being formed, or stands to reason that some could actually have overlapped...
Do remember also that there were no predators, nothing that would destroy a stable structure... Given enough time and enough membranes, things just happened, and you got lots of cells.
Big numbers means that very unlikely events do end up happening. all right, at least you're propounding a theory.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
Posts: 66911
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 10:34 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2015 at 10:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Now if only you could reciprocate. No..wait, wait..I forgot.
"Abracadabra!"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 957
Threads: 1
Joined: October 10, 2013
Reputation:
2
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 11:31 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 10:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Now if only you could reciprocate. No..wait, wait..I forgot.
"Abracadabra!" The creation model can explain it. Orthodox christians potentially underestimate God's nature, power, capacities by at least ∞^7+ whereas, atheists underestimate by ∞^11+. A point compared to a plane provides an infinite greater magnitude.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
Posts: 4196
Threads: 60
Joined: September 8, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 11:40 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2015 at 11:41 pm by IATIA.)
For starters: ∞^7= ∞^11= ∞ Any function performed on an infinity still equals an infinity.
And apparently you still have no desire to read, listen or acknowledge any real science and consistently rebut with "goddidit".
Is the problem a language barrier? You just know two words? Nuh-uh and goddidit?
You have received formidable answers to every question with source and reiteration, yet you still respond with "Nuh-uh, goddidit"
Damn, talk about creatard.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation:
123
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 11:45 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 9:17 pm)snowtracks Wrote: (January 10, 2015 at 8:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Current cells are dependent upon current membranes. That you think this must have always have been the case just goes to show you haven't taken the time to educate yourself on the subject you feel qualified to opine upon. I have no qualms stating, upfront, that I am no biologist. If you were even nearly as knowledgeable as you clearly imagine yourself to be..then why should -I- (or anyone) have to or be capable of educating -you- on some basic shit? You need to reassess, and it shouldn't take any specialized knowledge for you to come to that realization yourself. not looking for excuses; perhaps you don't understand the assignment.
It's not an excuse, you dismissive ass; the first cells do not have to be the same as modern cells. That's kinda what the evolutionary model is all about, change over time. Just because you baselessly assert that cells never change, solely because it's convenient to your argument, doesn't make Rhythm's answer an excuse. It just makes you ignorant.
As if your insistence on using nothing but arguments from ignorance wasn't enough hint of that. 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Posts: 8731
Threads: 425
Joined: October 7, 2014
Reputation:
37
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 11:45 pm
(January 10, 2015 at 11:31 pm)snowtracks Wrote: (January 10, 2015 at 10:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Now if only you could reciprocate. No..wait, wait..I forgot.
"Abracadabra!" The creation model can explain it. Orthodox christians potentially underestimate God's nature, power, capacities by at least ∞^7+ whereas, atheists underestimate by ∞^11+. A point compared to a plane provides an infinite greater magnitude.
Really... god did it.... god didn't do anything.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Abiogenesis is impossible
January 10, 2015 at 11:50 pm
If it could be shown even to the tiniest degree that "God" could do anything, we wouldn't be having these discussions.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
|
