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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 12:48 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 12:44 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 12:31 pm)Chas Wrote: You haven't refuted atheism; you can't refute a non-belief except by proving your claim.
You're not claiming that God didn't create the universe then? If you genuinely don't know and have no bias you can't be refuted only schooled in the ways of God, and then you'll come to a life changing understanding. Unless you resist but you can only do this by making the counter claim which is what you're really up to. You put up all these smoke screens and play around with words. Did you even read the first post or do facts just bounce off of you? The situation is this, you claim god created the universe, we say show us the evidence and you say that we just don't Wonna believe. Show us the evidence, Jesus I even outlined The steps for you
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 12:49 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 1:12 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: That is called argument ad populum and is a logical fallacy, so you begin your argument based on a fallacy. No, it's not a fallacy when the issue is convention and community standards - things which are determined by majority opinion.
Quote:Furthermore religion varies wildly across time and places, and there are atheistic religions that predate Christianity and were very widespread, in fact Buddhism and communism still are.
Also the one religion stance that is the oldest and appears in every culture is atheism.
Coupla oxymorons there dontcha think?
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 1:01 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 12:49 pm)John V Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 1:12 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: That is called argument ad populum and is a logical fallacy, so you begin your argument based on a fallacy. No, it's not a fallacy when the issue is convention and community standards - things which are determined by majority opinion.
Quote:Furthermore religion varies wildly across time and places, and there are atheistic religions that predate Christianity and were very widespread, in fact Buddhism and communism still are.
Also the one religion stance that is the oldest and appears in every culture is atheism.
Coupla oxymorons there dontcha think?
Well isn't it convenient that the people already convinced get to set the standard of evidence. Since you wish to propose the standard of evidence as a theist, I say go ahead, present your standard and then your evidence.
And no atheistic religion is not a oxymoron as atheism simply means "I don't believe in god" so I'd refer to Brian's post above for more details.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 1:07 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 12:44 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 12:31 pm)Chas Wrote: You haven't refuted atheism; you can't refute a non-belief except by proving your claim.
You're not claiming that God didn't create the universe then? If you genuinely don't know and have no bias you can't be refuted only schooled in the ways of God, and then you'll come to a life changing understanding. Unless you resist but you can only do this by making the counter claim which is what you're really up to. You put up all these smoke screens and play around with words.
We don't make such a claim. We're saying we don't know how the universe started. Conversely, how do you rationalize that the Universe was actually "created". Think first before you answer; we don't want an answer that presupposes god or you'll never properly come to a sound conclusion on this. Again; how do you know the universe is a product of creation?
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 1:15 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 1:01 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Well isn't it convenient that the people already convinced get to set the standard of evidence. Since you wish to propose the standard of evidence as a theist, I say go ahead, present your standard and then your evidence.
And no atheistic religion is not a oxymoron as atheism simply means "I don't believe in god" so I'd refer to Brian's post above for more details. Yes, it's convenient. You should have actually read it before you posted it. 
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:04 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 1:15 pm)John V Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 1:01 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Well isn't it convenient that the people already convinced get to set the standard of evidence. Since you wish to propose the standard of evidence as a theist, I say go ahead, present your standard and then your evidence.
And no atheistic religion is not a oxymoron as atheism simply means "I don't believe in god" so I'd refer to Brian's post above for more details. Yes, it's convenient. You should have actually read it before you posted it. I did. However it does not matter since you have no evidence to present, an since different religions vary wildly then how could you claim to have a standard of evidence defined by the community?
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Posts: 30726
Threads: 2123
Joined: May 24, 2012
Reputation:
71
RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:21 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 12:39 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: (October 8, 2013 at 1:45 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: That's perfectly fine but only works when you're assuming materialism to begin with, there isn't a good reason why you have to assume that to begin with though it's just you're own opinion really. Okay then follow the steps. First prove there is a god, then that it is your god.
Their logic works backwards.
Naked assertion<=pull crap out of their ass<=desired outcome
Good logic works like this.
Prior confirmed data=plugged into established formula=projected outcome
They can't and wont do this because once they do, their claims fall apart.
I like to ask believers if they would buy their own logic if someone with another pet deity claim were using the same tactic to prove their pet deity claim. They know the answer and we know the answer, but all "faith" requires is that they ignore the answer.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:33 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 2:04 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I did. However it does not matter since you have no evidence to present, Sure I do - the Bible. You might not accept it personally, but it fits your definition.
Quote:an since different religions vary wildly then how could you claim to have a standard of evidence defined by the community?
Religions vary widely, but evidence for them doesn't. For most it's documentary testimonial evidence.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:36 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 2:33 pm)John V Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 2:04 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I did. However it does not matter since you have no evidence to present, Sure I do - the Bible. You might not accept it personally, but it fits your definition.
Quote:an since different religions vary wildly then how could you claim to have a standard of evidence defined by the community?
Religions vary widely, but evidence for them doesn't. For most it's documentary testimonial evidence.
The only thing religion existing proves is that you can sell crap to lots of people.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:42 pm
(October 8, 2013 at 9:43 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Other than the evidence that religion exists is only evidence that humans pull shit out of their ass.
YOU PULL IT OUT!
Remind me never to shake your hand.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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