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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 4:02 am
(This post was last modified: December 10, 2013 at 4:05 am by Mystical.)
(December 9, 2013 at 9:20 pm)Godschild Wrote: If it's not true then why should I believe God is real? Why would you believe the OT over The NT.
GC
There's reasons to believe god is real. The possibility is not impossible. Hence I'm an agnostic. I'm still searching for that possibility because frankly: the thought of this life being all there is, is disappointing. I understand your hesitation but if I were you I wouldn't accept the Bible as the word of god for all the security in the world. Its just wrong.
GC Wrote:Who said history is true, most of ancient history is assumption from little evidence.
GC
There is proof out there, though. I showed you some and you dismissed it without adequate basis because it doesn't align with what you think you know.
GC Wrote:We're guided by God and see the truth of scriptures, at least those who will accept the truth, regardless as to what we think of it.
GC From what I can ascertain, you see social observations and commentary that may be quite intuitive. I myself could write a book on how to best handle strife and obstacles, and how to deal with people in a way that can give one fulfillment. Does that mean there is a god who inspired it? No, it just means an intuitive human wrote it.
As for the rest of the Bible, you ignore it at best or uphold it at worst--building up logical fallacies in order to account for the
inequitous contradictions therein.
In the end it comes down to how much of your morality you're willing to compromise, in exchange for the comfortability of the promise of ultimate justice (revenge upon those who do wrong) and hope of an afterlife.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 1:25 pm
(December 9, 2013 at 9:20 pm)Godschild Wrote: If it's not true then why should I believe God is real? Why would you believe the OT over The NT.
GC
ml26 Wrote:There's reasons to believe god is real. The possibility is not impossible. Hence I'm an agnostic. I'm still searching for that possibility because frankly: the thought of this life being all there is, is disappointing. I understand your hesitation but if I were you I wouldn't accept the Bible as the word of god for all the security in the world. Its just wrong.
Why, no ones proved the Bible is not a reliable spiritual book of instruction for believers who accept God as He describes Himself.
GC Wrote:Who said history is true, most of ancient history is assumption from little evidence.
GC
ml26 Wrote:There is proof out there, though. I showed you some and you dismissed it without adequate basis because it doesn't align with what you think you know.
History has so many gaps in it that much is assumed or out right speculation. I do not use the Bible as a history book other than to track God's work through man.
GC Wrote:We're guided by God and see the truth of scriptures, at least those who will accept the truth, regardless as to what we think of it.
GC
ml26 Wrote:From what I can ascertain, you see social observations and commentary that may be quite intuitive. I myself could write a book on how to best handle strife and obstacles, and how to deal with people in a way that can give one fulfillment. Does that mean there is a god who inspired it? No, it just means an intuitive human wrote it.
As for the rest of the Bible, you ignore it at best or uphold it at worst--building up logical fallacies in order to account for the
inequitous contradictions therein.
In the end it comes down to how much of your morality you're willing to compromise, in exchange for the comfortability of the promise of ultimate justice (revenge upon those who do wrong) and hope of an afterlife.
Justice and revenge as you would have it are two different things, revenge in no way has to be just, Justice on the other hand must always be just by necessity.
I ignore none of the scriptures, some I still have questions for God and await an answer. I seek the truth, why shouldn't I seek it from the author of life and the book He inspired. Wouldn't you do the same with a scientific paper.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 1:27 pm
(December 10, 2013 at 1:25 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why, no ones proved the Bible is not a reliable spiritual book of instruction for believers who accept God as He describes Himself.
How long have you been here, and you still don't understand the burden of proof, nor the definition of arguments from ignorance?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 1:29 pm
(This post was last modified: December 10, 2013 at 1:39 pm by Godscreated.)
(December 10, 2013 at 3:19 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Serious question GC, why do you believe that the Bible, in its entirety, is true. I'm curious.
If it's not true then why should I believe God is real? Why would you believe the OT over The NT.""
That's not an answer! C'mon GC, I KNOW you can do better than that. You obviously believe in the bible. What made you decide to believe that what it says is true? What's the process that led you to the conclusion that it's report of God is accurate?
GOD's revelation to me as I study, I thought this was apparent.
(December 10, 2013 at 1:27 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (December 10, 2013 at 1:25 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why, no ones proved the Bible is not a reliable spiritual book of instruction for believers who accept God as He describes Himself.
How long have you been here, and you still don't understand the burden of proof, nor the definition of arguments from ignorance?
You must have missed it, I've stated I'm not here to prove God nor scripture to you, so I do not care about what you think I should do.
GC
(December 10, 2013 at 3:46 am)Rayaan Wrote: Serious question to both GC and Jacob:
Do you guys believe that either the NT or the OT are somehow more accurate word of God than the other? If so, then why?
No both are equal, both were inspired by God, the OT is the foretelling of Christ and why He needed to come and accomplish the work of the Father's will. One can not be without the other, in actuality it's a continuous story.
GC
(December 10, 2013 at 1:12 am)Kitanetos Wrote: (December 10, 2013 at 1:09 am)Godschild Wrote: you have no understanding.
GC
Of course, we do. You have fallen within the same self-delusion where all theists reside.
Can you prove you're not the one self deluded?
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 1:47 pm
(This post was last modified: December 10, 2013 at 1:48 pm by Bad Writer.)
If we stick to what we know of reality, there is little chance of delusion on our part. Believing in something without proof brings one close to delusion or right over the edge of it. Reality is measurable, so there's a safe bet in keeping within its parameters. Straying from that sometimes = religion which in turn very well may = insanity.
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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 1:48 pm
(December 10, 2013 at 1:25 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why, no ones proved the Bible is not a reliable spiritual book of instruction for believers who accept God as He describes Himself.
No one has proved the loch ness monster doesn't exist
No one has proved bigfoot doesn't exist
No one has proved fairies don't exist
No one has proved unicorns don't exist
No one has proved leprechauns don't exist
I guess you must also believe in these things because they haven't been proved not to exist
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 1:49 pm
Serious question. GC, do you think Muslims/Mormons/Hindus/anyone not Christian are delusional?
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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 7:12 pm
(December 10, 2013 at 1:49 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Serious question. GC, do you think Muslims/Mormons/Hindus/anyone not Christian are delusional?
No, they are misguided.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 7:26 pm
(This post was last modified: December 10, 2013 at 7:29 pm by Jacob(smooth).)
(December 10, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Godschild Wrote: (December 10, 2013 at 3:19 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Serious question GC, why do you believe that the Bible, in its entirety, is true. I'm curious.
If it's not true then why should I believe God is real? Why would you believe the OT over The NT.""
That's not an answer! C'mon GC, I KNOW you can do better than that. You obviously believe in the bible. What made you decide to believe that what it says is true? What's the process that led you to the conclusion that it's report of God is accurate?
GOD's revelation to me as I study, I thought this was apparent. No, not really.
I'm no stranger to divine revelation but I'm curious to know how it works for you. Do you feel, as you read, that God tells you that what you are reading is true? Or did you he have a specific revelation that the book was reliable?
No need to shout Btw. We're just talking.
(December 10, 2013 at 3:46 am)Rayaan Wrote: Serious question to both GC and Jacob:
Do you guys believe that either the NT or the OT are somehow more accurate word of God than the other? If so, then why? Sorry, missed this one.
Yes, because the NT is more (though by no means entirely) internally consistent. Its also less bizarre.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: The question that makes fundies hostile
December 10, 2013 at 7:59 pm
(December 10, 2013 at 7:26 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: (December 10, 2013 at 1:29 pm)Godschild Wrote: GOD's revelation to me as I study, I thought this was apparent.
No, not really.
I'm no stranger to divine revelation but I'm curious to know how it works for you. Do you feel, as you read, that God tells you that what you are reading is true? Or did you he have a specific revelation that the book was reliable?
No need to shout Btw. We're just talking.
Wanted to make sure you were listening, as I read, scripture comes into focus, it becomes clear what God's will and or plan was and many other verses come to mind that support what I learn.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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