The most important reason I'm xtian

[WesOlsen]

I like the saying;

In necessariis unitas,
in dubiis libertas,
in omnibus caritas.

In necessary things unity; (The Nicene Creed is necessary and sufficient and unites most Christians.)

In uncertain things freedom; Many doctrines are not strictly essential to salvation - eg. age of the earth.

No need to remind Lion of the untold numbers who have been butchered in christian on christian violence then. Rarely do I actually witness christians sects saying anything nice about one another, you can still walk down the wrong street in Northern Ireland or Belgrade and expect to get cut to shreds for being the wrong type of christian. Even on a good day christians are too busy arguing over whether to venerate saints or what type of cup to use in what type of service. Gay rights, women's rights, capital punishment, abortion, sexual relations, the legitimisation of a pope............right on down to blood transfusions and whether or not to talk to members who are outside of your sect. Christians only seem to come together on television debate shows or in special services/rallies whilst a temporary display of unity is donned, before going right back to slagging off the church down the road and crying heresy. One book to clear it all up and instead we get thousands of competing denominations. Not a very good guide to life if not even christians can decipher it. Just sayin like. Lion should should be more like Jacob.

[Jacob(smooth)]

We share a few core beliefs I'm certain. It's the nature of humanity to focus on what separates us rather than what divides us.

[Tonus]

My only question... why be a Christian? You sound more like my own younger brother who is an agnostic.

It sounds to me as if he's taking a practical approach, based around his human psychology. His belief in the teachings of Christ helped him overcome certain problems, and maintaining the ruse that he "is a Christian" helps him to manage his behavior. I find it very clever. I believe that we are generally slaves to our subconscious, but the more we understand about how it works and what he happen to have lurking in ours, the better we are able to use it to our advantage.

I still adhere to nearly all of the behavioral precepts of Christianity. Realizing that god wasn't there did not change my feelings about the best ways to behave for my own best results. I simply shed the stuff that wasn't very useful (time wasted in church meetings and door-to-door evangelizing, for example) and kept the stuff that was. To this day I can still rationalize why I avoid certain behaviors even if those rationalizations are suspect (I don't smoke weed and very very rarely drink, for example). It works and helps me to build the life I want to have, so there's no reason to work against it.

[ThomM]

I have questions for YOU?


Are you capable of being a moral and ethical person - without believing in a religion?

Do you NEED the threat of punishment or the promise of a reward to be good?

What happens when you pray for something on a large scale - like the end of cancer - or the end of childhood hunger - does it happen around the world? Hasn't that been prayed for - for generations. Why has that NOT happened - it certainly must be something a loving god would want - even if ONLY for his followers - but never happens on a large scale.

IF you are really a good - moral - and ethical person - do you really believe that a religion is LISTENED to by a god? After all - it is their claim that they can intercede with one.

Wouldn't a god consider giving money to a church to be an attempt to BRIBE the god? (Most religious donation do NOT go to charities - they go to support the religion) Didn't the christ supposedly say (I do not recognize the christ as real) - give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to god what is god's - when talking about money?

Why do you need someone screaming in your face in a church to tell you how to live a good life - something you probably were already taught?

[Jacob(smooth)]

I have questions for YOU?

For me? You shouldn't have!

Are you capable of being a moral and ethical person - without believing in a religion?

Presuming we are talking about me personally, I don't know. I do know I did some pretty fucked up things before I started taking religion seriously. But I suspect that now I could be a moral person without religion yes.

Do you NEED the threat of punishment or the promise of a reward to be good?

No. I never believed in The carrot and stick approach to religion. To butcher a saying, I don't believe we are punished for our sin, I believe we are punished BY our sin.

What happens when you pray for something on a large scale - like the end of cancer - or the end of childhood hunger - does it happen around the world? Hasn't that been prayed for - for generations. Why has that NOT happened - it certainly must be something a loving god would want - even if ONLY for his followers - but never happens on a large scale.

Personally I've never prayed for anything like that because I don't think that's how it works. God is not some metaphysical genie one can summon to fulfil our wishes.

Wouldn't a god consider giving money to a church to be an attempt to BRIBE the god? (Most religious donation do NOT go to charities - they go to support the religion) Didn't the christ supposedly say (I do not recognize the christ as real) - give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to god what is god's - when talking about money?

Hard to answer because I would not presume to know how or even if "God thinks". But I certainly think that the concept of donating money to church is often cynical and disingenuous.

Why do you need someone screaming in your face in a church to tell you how to live a good life - something you probably were already taught?

Easy. I don't. I rarely go to church at the moment, but when I do its not for someone to tell me how to live a good life, it's to destress and feel better about myself. Church is an entirely selfish activity.

And as an aside if you're thinking of pastors screaming at people, you've not endured an Anglican church service. I remember once the vicar, who was leading the service, actually fell asleep! True story. Screaming would be most unlikely.

I should stress that the answers above are only my personal views and not meant to represent Christianity as a whole.