"The bible test" Answered.

[Ksa]

Good point about the idiom—I am one with = I am in agreement with.

I don't think Jesus the man really claimed to be God or even claimed to be the apocalyptic figure of the Son of Man, who would supposedly come to judge the world.

If this were an idiom then why did the Jew move to kill Him? When He Asked the Jews why are you trying to stone me, they said you claimed to be God.

Because Jesus insulted them over and over...and over...him calling them a wicked and adulterous generation, fools...SNAKES! Would you get mad if someone addressed you like that? Them saying Jesus claimed to be God was a PRETEXT to give him a good bashing. They would make up any bs story about Jesus they HATED him!

People in this topic were right, it's like arguing with a wall xD

The Jews were the most annoying fellowship any prophet could imagine because unless you did a miracle, cut a mountain in half or split the sea, THEY WOULD NEVER BELIEVE. Look what Phillip said in John 14:8:

"Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

And Jesus tells him you're an IDIOT John 14:9:

"Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?"

AND AGAIN the Christians misunderstood. Jesus was EXASPERATED. The Jews would not understand so he had to come up with sentences fit for 5 year olds! It's ok sweetie, if you saw me, you saw the father shhhhuut! Jesus wanted to calm them down, to put them to sleep like you put to sleep a 5 year old. He dealt with CHILDREN! IMMATURE people. They did not understand and they do not understand up until this day!

Not even Phillip who had a 60 IQ believed Jesus was God after hearing that! And yet Christians believe!

[Drich]

The phrase

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us."

Is plagiarism from Greek texts, not even translated properly!

What greek texts? The Kione Greek text that make up John 1:1 are in agreement with the translation.

The proper translation would be "Gods" with an "s". It has no religious value, I can tell you where it comes from on request but won't detail on it here so I don't further derail the topic.

ah, no.
the word here is theos it a generic term describing a god or given the correct context mean the God Most high/The God of the bible.
Kinda how we use the word 'god.'
http://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/l...2316&t=NIV

[Ksa]

^ TONTHEOS, which means "a god". According to your translation you should have spelt this word God a second time with a small "g" i.e. god, and not God with a capital "G"; TONTHEOS is rendered "a god". Both of these, "god" or "a god" are correct.

But in 2 Corinthians 4:4 you dishonestly reverse your system by using a small "g" when spelling GOD - "(and the devil is) the god of this world." The Greek word for "the god" is HOTHEOS, JUST LIKE in John 1:1.

Why have you not been consistent in your translation? If Paul was inspired to write hotheos - the God for the Devil, why begrudge him that capital 'G'?

[Drich]

Hehe. Well it's just deception. It simply had never occurred to me that god would lie, so that was an interesting discovery there.

Not lie deceive. A lie is a deception not authorized by God. As far as God using deception Your peers have pointed to several examples.

I think it is a bit redundant that god would say "if I swear an oath then it's guaranteed." By his admission, his actions must promote his purpose (or his will, I suppose). Therefore if god mislead a person in order to further his plans for humanity, it would be in keeping with his will, and if his will is for the greater good then the lie is defensible (in the same way as a person lying to protect an innocent, we can say).

It does reinforce the idea that any particular action is not, in and of itself, moral or immoral.

I think that context is probably the best guide for what makes an action moral or not. For some actions it may not be easy (or even possible?) to find a context that makes it moral, and I am sure that there are people who can commit some pretty horrible acts with the full confidence that what they are doing is good. I know that many theists abhor moral ambiguity (I sure did when I was a believer) but it seems that there is very little that is unambiguous about morality.

Here is where we seperate again. Because Morality is not an absolute or unchanging standard, the best way to determin 'morality' will be understanding the culture making the judgement. Anything can be considered moral, and Anything can be considered immoral.

[Ksa]

Drich can't reply in real time, he's off doing research lol. I quote stuff from my mind, verses included, if we had a conversation he would be out after a few exchanges lol.

Helpless without the book, he has to open the book!

[Drich]

So you say like the Jews, that he is God. Are you picking up stones to stone him too? lol

Why do you not follow Jesus Christ? If you say he's God, like the Jews did, you follow the Jews not him! In fact, you mock him, just like the Jews who apparently crucified him.

This is another logical fallacy (appeal to emotion.) If you read post 84 you would note your observation was rejected based on the context of john 10.

Jesus never claimed divinity, in fact, he says in

Not true.

John chapter 10 verse 29 "my father is greater than all",
John chapter 14 verse 28 "My father is greater than I",

Luke chapter 11 verse 20 "I with the finger of God cast out devils",

Matthew chapter 12 verse 28 "I cast out devils with the spirit of God",

John, chapter 5 verse 30, "I by myself can do NOTHING".

All any of these verses say is the Father holds the seat of power in the trinity. It does not say the Son or the Spirit are not God.

Again God is a title and not an indivisual's name. Appearently there is a pecking order with the Father at the top.

He is one with God in PURPOSE. Both want the same thing. They are united in will and wants. You quoted one verse where he ambiguously seems to say he's God, I quoted 2352352 verses where he for sure says he's NOT God.

You have intentionally obscured the meaning of John 10, Ignored context, and have on several occasions pulled verses from all over the bible in an red herring attempt to shift the focous of this conversation away from the clear cut contextual support that established Christ's claim to deity in John 10.

Now if the Verses in John 10 were indeed ambiguous then why are your efforts directed toward scripture found everywhere else in the bible but in john 10? why not exploit this supposed ambiguity contained in john 10 unless it was not there?

Any logical person can see the desperation and cherry picking (as a logical fallacy) you have displayed here to try and save face/avoid the commitment you made to goto Church. Your on your heels. The fact that you lost intrest in the 'context' of John 10, and have shifted your efforts to cherry picking bits and pieces from all over the bible to try and save face, scream this fact.

Nice try sport, but you failed. Maybe you should move one to one of the more solid athiest arguements like: No biblical support against gays or God is immoral, or evolution disproves God.. Something maybe more managable something that lots of atheists have blogged about.

[Ksa]

All any of these verses say is the Father holds the seat of power in the trinity. It does not say the Son or the Spirit are not God.

Seat of what? Are you watching Star Wars? Because you're clearly not reading the Bible. Where is this mentioned....bleh I won't bother it's not mentioned anywhere. But let's take your logic further:

If the Father dominates, it means the trinity is a patriarchy right? Father is the dominant figure. But now there's a battle between the son and the Holy Spirit right? Who's higher? Well, since you claim that God begot a son and since begetting is animal act, it belongs to the lower animal functions of sex...and given that God, with his "Holy Spirit" entered Mary's room and raped her without her consent, I must conclude the Holy Spirit is God's genitals!

So I assume Jesus is above that! If Jesus is lower than God's genitals why would you worship him? Might as well worship God's penis...


For the rest see post 101...stop asking the same questions when it's clearly answered.

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Aparently, worshiping God's penis, the "lovely" part of the Trinity is RESERVED to the DAUGHTERS, as it is mentioned in the Song Of Solomon, Chapter Number 5, Verse Number 16 which says:

"His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, this is my friend, daughters of Jerusalem."

This verse in Hebrew reads:

חכו ממתקים וכלו
מחמדים זה דודי
וזה רעי בנות
ירושלם׃

Hiku Mamtakeem, Vikulli Muhammadin, Zedudii Vei Zeyree, Banak Ieruszaleem.

Mentions the oncoming of the holy spirit, so the DAUGHTERS are warned! Not the men, not the elders, the DAUGHTERS. States that God's penis is lovely and deserves worship.

This is the abomination you believe in. You can't worship the penis so you worship the son. I think you now understand why the Trinity was thrown out of the Bible by Christian scholars...but I waited for you to embarrass yourself in front of everyone before revealing it to you.

[Drich]

Because Jesus insulted them over and over...and over...him calling them a wicked and adulterous generation, fools...SNAKES! Would you get mad if someone addressed you like that? Them saying Jesus claimed to be God was a PRETEXT to give him a good bashing. They would make up any bs story about Jesus they HATED him!

If the story was made up and Jesus did not claim to be God why did correct their usage of the word god siteing psalms 82:6? He used that defination to support his claim on deity, first by showing that technically all who do God's work are 'gods' and then once he was in the clear (by the law) He took his miricals and said if He were not indeed deity God the Father would not allow Him to do Miricals in His name and still claim deity Which is why they tried to Kill Him again.
37 If I don’t do what my Father does, then don’t believe what I say. 38 But if I do what my Father does, you should believe in what I do. You might not believe in me, but you should believe in the things I do. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

No one But the Son of God can Claim "the Father is in Him, and He in the Father." Christ used the law to show they had no justification to stone Him because all who do the works of God the Father were considered gods. Then He sited His work/Miricals to underscore that no one could do these things if God the Father supported Him and Everything He said and did. Then with that fresh in their minds He reasserted that He was indeed on Par with God the Father Making Him God as well. Which again made the hypocrits pick up stones to stone Him even though Christ just showed they had no justification to do so.

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^ TONTHEOS, which means "a god". According to your translation you should have spelt this word God a second time with a small "g" i.e. god, and not God with a capital "G"; TONTHEOS is rendered "a god". Both of these, "god" or "a god" are correct.

But in 2 Corinthians 4:4 you dishonestly reverse your system by using a small "g" when spelling GOD - "(and the devil is) the god of this world." The Greek word for "the god" is HOTHEOS, JUST LIKE in John 1:1.

Why have you not been consistent in your translation? If Paul was inspired to write hotheos - the God for the Devil, why begrudge him that capital 'G'?

The word in John 1:1 is theos
θεός theos

http://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jh...NIV#conc/1

If you think differently show me proof, as I have shown you proof via an acredited lexicon and concordance. I will not be taking your word.

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Drich can't reply in real time, he's off doing research lol. I quote stuff from my mind, verses included, if we had a conversation he would be out after a few exchanges lol.

Helpless without the book, he has to open the book!

Which is probably why you have been shown to be flat out wrong 10 times out of 10 to this point. Your 'mind' is not the vault of reliable information you think it to be.

And yes I research absolutly everything. So whatever I post can be backed by at least three different sources.
Which is a far cry from the faith needed to accept anything you have said.

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Seat of what? Are you watching Star Wars? Because you're clearly not reading the Bible. Where is this mentioned....bleh I won't bother it's not mentioned anywhere. But let's take your logic further:

Revelations 5:13 John recordes the praises of every created being "Glory and power for The one who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." The "one who sits on the throne" is in a position of ultimate authority and power (hence seat of power.) That 'one' would be God the Father, and the Lamb is another name for Jesus.

If the Father dominates, it means the trinity is a patriarchy right?

1: social organization marked by the supremacy of the father in the clan or family
According to the defination above yes.

Father is the dominant figure. But now there's a battle between the son and the Holy Spirit right?

Where do you see a battle mentioned in scripture? The Son sits at the right hand of the Father. The seat to the right of the seat of power signifies the one who sits here answers only to the one sitting in the seat of power.

Who's higher? Well, since you claim that God begot a son and since begetting is animal act, it belongs to the lower animal functions of sex...and given that God, with his "Holy Spirit" entered Mary's room and raped her without her consent, I must conclude the Holy Spirit is God's genitals!

So I assume Jesus is above that! If Jesus is lower than God's genitals why would you worship him? Might as well worship God's penis...

I was wondering when the false pretenses would fall and you defaulted to the good ole atheist standby. an appeal to vulgarity in an attempt to shock and awe the christian away from the conversation..

This is the abomination you believe in. You can't worship the penis so you worship the son. I think you now understand why the Trinity was thrown out of the Bible by Christian scholars...but I waited for you to embarrass yourself in front of everyone before revealing it to you.

Don't you mean Mormon scholars? Mormons as you well know are Christian, as they do not worship the God of the bible. They worship the gods and prophets set up by mormonism.

[Ksa]

^ Then quote a single post where I quoted a Bible verse wrong from my mind.

If you don't follow Jesus Christ and the Bible, no wonder those verses appear wrong!

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"Revelations 5:13 John recordes the praises of every created being "Glory and power for The one who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." The "one who sits on the throne" is in a position of ultimate authority and power (hence seat of power.) That 'one' would be God the Father, and the Lamb is another name for Jesus."

This is an innovation. It is nowhere mentioned that Jesus sits beside God rofl. Revelations 5:13 says:

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."

Does it say the lamb sits beside the throne?

[Drich]

^ Then quote a single post where I quoted a Bible verse wrong from my mind.

If you don't follow Jesus Christ and the Bible, no wonder those verses appear wrong!

So, Now as if failed exegesis of scripture was not enough to discredit you, you also want to add liar to your resume?
You did not quote all of these verses from memory. there is at least two (if not all) on post 72 you cut and pasted from an online bible

John 10:29: My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c];
John 10:34: Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]?

The [c] & [d] denotations point to foot notes as in:http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2010&version=ERV at the bottom of the page. These foot notes are unique to a given translation/publisher. Your footnotes align themselves with biblegateway.com so inaddition to lying we can add plagerism (which i believe is against the rules mods)

This is an innovation. It is nowhere mentioned that Jesus sits beside God rofl.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?sea...spanend=65

Here are 7 examples of Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father. You've got to be a trolling, sock puppet, poe.

Revelations 5:13 says:

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."

Does it say the lamb sits beside the throne?

Straw man.
My use of Rev 5:13 was not to show Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father as you have misrepersented my words in the above statement. Rev 5:13 pointed to the seat of Power that you claimed did not exist any where in the bible.

Your failure in general knoweledge of the bible proves once and for all that even if you have a portion of the bible memorized you do not understand it, nor are you able to access it in a reliable way. The total sum of your efforts here have been proven to be a series of lies, shames, or total works of misdirection. As a result i do not want to 'feed the troll' any more.

No one is this arrogant and wrong, and it not be on purpose.