"The bible test" Answered.

[Ksa]

Can someone help him, maybe PM him on how analogies work. I would but i believe any of my efforts will be dismissed as an attempt to try and illegitmatly undermine his work. Maybe if it came from one of his brothers in arms...

So you agree with me when I say that Jesus never died right? Because that fits in perfect with the sign of Jonah, Jonah didn't die in the whale, Jesus didn't die on the cross/tomb either. Perfect.

No Christianity.

[Drich]

therefore from the vantage point of looking back with 20/20 vision we can see the meaning of this passage.

therefore from the vantage point of reading your bullshit we can see that you will never admit to making a mistake no matter how obvious it is.

You can't even write grammatical English, and you expect me to believe that you are competent to analyze the niceties of a Greek text.

Not hard to guess your favorite song: Oooh, Loorrd, it's harrd ta be humbul when yore purrfekt in evry waaay.
[spelling adapted to reflect Drich's system of orthography]

In fact I did willing admit that your KJV translation was gramatically correct but not Historically accurate. Then i showed how my translation was also gramatically viable and also historically correct. I can be read eitherway. My way simply takes history into account and is not limited to the default contextual interpertation of the passage.

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Can someone help him, maybe PM him on how analogies work. I would but i believe any of my efforts will be dismissed as an attempt to try and illegitmatly undermine his work. Maybe if it came from one of his brothers in arms...

So you agree with me when I say that Jesus never died right? Because that fits in perfect with the sign of Jonah, Jonah didn't die in the whale, Jesus didn't die on the cross/tomb either. Perfect.

No Christianity.

Jesus was the Name of a Man. This name repersents a physical form, it was 100% human. This form was nailed to a cross and died.

The Christ was the Messiah, (not Jesus' last name) This was the Spiritual aspect of the Man Jesus. In stead of having a soul like the rest of us Jesus (the physical form) had the Christ/God the son indewell Him. This form is incorruptiable and not subject to death.

That is Why Jesus' title/name is offically "Jesus The Christ." This repersents God (The Christ) in Human Form (Jesus)

Now How does Jesus The Christ repersent Jonah and the whale? In this Analogy (google it for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy) Jesus the physical form Dies, in this death is repersents the Whale in the story. Because in Death the physical form (jesus) in tombs The Christ/God the Son. (which is jonah BTW) After three days Christ reseuects the physical form 'Jesus.' Like wise the whale gives up jonah.

Hence the sign of Jonah.

What other muslim evidence do you want me to refute for you mr "atheist?"

Oh and I notice you have answered my question as to why you did not goto Church last sunday.. why is that?

[WesOlsen]

Never really answer Drich why you think god chosen to suspend the laws of nature on a regular basis.

How do you know that He did?
Surly you have seen a star trek episode where a primitive race of people witnessed the technology of the federation and thought it to be God like. (the start of this last movie is a good example)
When in fact the people of the federation were not using magic to bend suspend or side step the laws of nature, they had equipment that manipulated those laws producing a miraculous effect. Miraculous to a people who did not understand the science of what they were witnessing.

now, with that in mind Why would the God of creation create everything in the known universe (including what we have deemed the 'laws of nature') just to side step suspend the Laws of nature everytime He wants something done?

Isn't it far more plausiable that He created everything with in the scope of His will and power to simply play out how He was things to happen? even if that means empowering a few with the ablity to access and use these laws to produce what would appear to be a miracle to those who do not fully understand what was going on?

If man uses Technology to manipulate the laws of nature is it magic? If God uses what ever God uses to manipulate the Laws of nature is it Magic? No, For some it is just the unknown.

Mircales are not in the unexplained execution of an act. a mircale is God doing whatever, however to accomplish whatever His end goal is. whether it be a known/explainable process or not. What makes a mircale a mircale is not how the Hand of God moves to accomplish a goal, but that it moved.

(presumably effecting others and perhaps leaving them in a disadvantaged position so that you can benefit) in your cushty first world living environment whilst he rewards others (who sought truth desperately and gave up time and money for the christian god) with cholera, famine, gang rape and ethnic cleansing?

Again why do you assume the negitive items on your list were not easier ways to find God? It is in the time of great comfort that people forget God. It is when we go through chrushing trials that God is easily found. (It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter Heaven.)

Testimony bias is a cop out mate, even though it's peddled by hundreds of thousands of individuals from rival denominations and used as 'evidence' for a personal jesus bodyguard. Defy the laws of nature with the help of your interstellar baby sitter and we'll consider taking you seriously. Throw yourself off a bridge or drink some poison, see what happens.

...And what if God does not want you to have this understanding of how He works? (That He must defy the laws of nature to work) Wouldn't having me or anyone else defy the laws of nature on demand be counter productive? To His end goal?

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So Drich, your response is to handwave mercilessly, and change the definition of A/S/K yet again so that there's no one definite success condition either?

What has this process become? "Ask, See, Knock, and something will happen. Could be anything. And if you ever stop, you weren't doing it right."

How does one test that prospect, Drich? In what way is that falsifiable?

A/S/K and you will receive a measure of the Holy Spirit. In this process you will build a relationship. The longer your involved the stronger the relationship, or if you like the puzzle analogy better the longer you work on the puzzle the more clear the puzzle picture becomes.

How is this falsifiable? How is a Puzzle falsifiable?

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Speaking of light switches, you're saying that God died, if the light of God was extinguished, who ran this Universe? The light that we see coming from the Sun, if God died, what happened to all your switches, what can you do with those? You still don't get how stupid that story is right? If God is uncreated, how can God die? Do you know the definition of death? Death is when a created being dies.

Can someone help him, maybe PM him on how analogies work. I would but i believe any of my efforts will be dismissed as an attempt to try and illegitmatly undermine his work. Maybe if it came from one of his brothers in arms...

Oh goodness. So basically, gods personal intervention is done within the framework of normal things, so basically nobody can even witness a supernatural event because that would make it obvious. So, he sends his son down, guts him and has him raise from the dead, which is perfectly normal. But when he improves your life, by doing nothing out of the ordinary and by rousing no attention, we're expected to believe that something has actually happened, whereas by your own admission nothing extraordinary has happened at all.

Again why do you assume the negitive items on your list were not easier ways to find God? It is in the time of great comfort that people forget God. It is when we go through chrushing trials that God is easily found. (It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter Heaven.)

So enduring extreme horrors can be an easy route to finding god, but god prefers to make a mediocre life good rather than make a terrible life bearable? Interesting doctrine there, not the sort of one i'd really like to follow mind you. And given that bad people can enjoy good material conditions in this life, we can simply conclude that god does not use merit to elevate people to good standing (in the here and now). Basically good people can endure misery and bad people can enjoy extreme comfort, meaning that believing in Luke 230000 or whatever, is not a necessary condition for good living conditions in this life. Meaning adherence to whatever biblical passage is completely unecessary and personal endevour or dishonesty can result in good living conditions, living conditions that are indistinguishable from the good living conditions created by god's personal touch (as in your case), a personal touch that can't be seen or measured at all, and by all rights probably isn't there.

Sounds like there's no correlation between degrees of observance and material living conditions in this world at all, and when you say that there is, they can't be differentiated from good living conditions that arose from methods other than religious observance. Almost as if...............it's complete horse shit?

[Ksa]

Jesus was the Name of a Man. This name repersents a physical form, it was 100% human. This form was nailed to a cross and died.

No you noob...Jesus must die as a GOD, because a man cannot carry the sins of the world, you Bible illiterate.

Now How does Jesus The Christ repersent Jonah and the whale? In this Analogy (google it for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy) Jesus the physical form Dies, in this death is repersents the Whale in the story. Because in Death the physical form (jesus) in tombs The Christ/God the Son. (which is jonah BTW) After three days Christ reseuects the physical form 'Jesus.' Like wise the whale gives up jonah.

Jonah was alive in the belly of the whale all along, Jesus was DEAD according to you. So Jesus never fulfilled the sign unless he was always alive, like Jonah was alive praying to God in the belly of the whale.

LOL

He knows nothing.

[Bad Writer]

Semantics. There was probably never a prophet named Jonah, and if there was, he most certainly could not survive three days in the belly of a fish/whale/aquatic behemoth. Same goes for Jesus; if he was real, then he probably didn't rise after three days of being dead. However, Drich is correct that the analogy is sound.

The moral of the story: analogies can be valid all day long, but, in the end, if they don't reflect reality with real consequences, then why should we care about them? And if Jesus is an archetype of the Jonah story, it just goes further to prove how fabricated his claims of divinity really are.

[Lemonvariable72]

Did anyone one else pick up the theme here. Jesus dies for for three days and is resurrected and has surpassed his frail body. Jonah was frail in the spirit and spends three days I. The whale and comes out stronger in the spirit then ever. When you are baptized your old self dies and a new self is born ( supposedly). Interesting

[Ksa]

Semantics. There was probably never a prophet named Jonah, and if there was, he most certainly could not survive three days in the belly of a fish/whale/aquatic behemoth. Same goes for Jesus; if he was real, then he probably didn't rise after three days of being dead. However, Drich is correct that the analogy is sound.

The moral of the story: analogies can be valid all day long, but, in the end, if they don't reflect reality with real consequences, then why should we care about them? And if Jesus is an archetype of the Jonah story, it just goes further to prove how fabricated his claims of divinity really are.

What makes the analogy correct? In my understanding, the analogy is between the events that occurred with of Jonah:

1) Jonah disobeyed God. God told him to go to Nineveh and he didn't.
2) Jonah was ok with being punished he said go throw me, I'm guilty.
3) God punishes Jonah.
4) Jonah lived through the entire experience.
5) Jonah was a man.
6) Jonah spent 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale.

and Jesus:

1) Jesus never disobeyed God.
2) Jesus never liked the punishement "ellay ellay lamassa bahtani?!" he yelled in confusion on the cross. He didn't think he was guilty.
3) God never punished Jesus because God cannot punish himself.
4) Jesus died.
5) Jesus was God.
6) Jesus spent 2 days and 2 nights in the heart of the Earth.

How can the analogy work?

[Bad Writer]

Certain elements are different, but the analogy of Jonah and Jesus is as old as the Bible itself. Drich isn't the first to point it out. Hell, even Mufasa from the Lion King, Gandalf from LOTR, and the Osiris mythology are parallels to Christ.

[Ksa]

Certain elements are different, but the analogy of Jonah and Jesus is as old as the Bible itself. Drich isn't the first to point it out. Hell, even Mufasa from the Lion King, Gandalf from LOTR, and the Osiris mythology are parallels to Christ.

Ok but is what Jesus speaks of in Matthew 12:40 an analogy?

"as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

I'm not as educated as you on semantics, but when I read "as Jonah was" the first question that comes to mind is? How was Jonah?

If I say: "As Mathew was when he got drunk at Lilly's party and ruined everything, I will be at your wedding." When I go to the wedding, can I be sober and deliver a flawless best-man speech? That would make me a liar right?

[Bad Writer]

I think the important comparison is that both were buried for three days and made a comeback.