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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 2:50 pm
(This post was last modified: December 9, 2013 at 2:51 pm by Bad Wolf.)
(December 9, 2013 at 2:47 pm)Psykhronic Wrote: And there are things to be done about theft, murder, and crime in general. These things tend to decrease when education and quality of living increase.
Yes but education doesn't eliminate crime completely. And by that line of thinking you could say that the most educated person in the world wouldn't commit a crime, and we know that isn't true because many well educated people commit crimes e.g. tax avoidance
(December 9, 2013 at 2:47 pm)Psykhronic Wrote: Teach kids why rape is not okay. How children and women and men and gender non-conforming people can be raped. What rape does to the body, what it does to the mind. And as I just mentioned, overall an increase in better education will help with crime. We do all this already
(December 9, 2013 at 2:47 pm)Psykhronic Wrote: What is YOUR plan to prevent rape?
I don't have one because I don't believe it can be prevented
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 2:52 pm
Well no kidding it doesn't eliminate crime completely, but where did I say it did? There is going to be crime, rapes, murders - but we should still DO something about it, to reduce that number and to ensure those who perpetrate such acts are dealt with (in a way that actually works unlike the US prison system but thats another story).
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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 2:55 pm
(This post was last modified: December 9, 2013 at 2:58 pm by Bad Wolf.)
I agree
But the point I don't think you are getting here is that rape can't be educated out of someone. Rapist will always be rapists even before they rape someone for the first time. Think of it like homosexuality, Christians teaching 5 year olds how wrong being gay is, will have absolutely zero effect of whether they turn out to be gay or not.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 2:58 pm
(This post was last modified: December 9, 2013 at 3:00 pm by Psykhronic.)
Wolf - I do not commonly see that education. I am from America, bear in mind. That is far from the norm here - I think that kind of education helps, albeit not entirely but it's a start.
Do you think EVERY crime cannot be prevented and therefore do not have a plan to prevent such a thing?
Btw, I don't want things to get too heated - I have no bitterness towards you over this, I hope you feel the same regarding this situation.
And I suppose I should add - if you think of crimes differently, what is it about rape specifically?
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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 3:01 pm
(December 9, 2013 at 2:58 pm)Psykhronic Wrote: Do you think EVERY crime cannot be prevented and therefore do not have a plan to prevent such a thing?
I think that crimes that can be linked to our evolutionary history e.g. instincts, cannot be eradicated. I do believe we can reduce the amount they occur but we will never be able to get rid of them any time soon (a few million years) because I don't believe you can educate someone out of them
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 3:02 pm
Actually, believe it or not, TJ does talk about this in one of his most recent videos. He's more reasonable here and calm and intelligent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBgSfdfJQqk
Might also want to add on, lack of empathy could be included in that. People aren't being asked to think about the feelings of others and that plays a role in not only rape but in discussions about rape.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto
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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 3:03 pm
(This post was last modified: December 9, 2013 at 3:04 pm by LastPoet.)
There is a cultural bs that boys only turn into men if they are 'players', fuck many women, that needs to be adressed first. Notice that I do not condemn men that like to seduce, flirt with women and have many consenting partners (women can do that too), its the cultural pressure put into men since young ages that they have to validate their sexuality by objectifying women.
This cultural factor is also one that leads to several cases of rape, despite those rapists knowing they are hurting their victims. They are educated, but they do it anyway.
Just my 2 cents.
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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 3:06 pm
(This post was last modified: December 9, 2013 at 3:10 pm by Psykhronic.)
Wolf- What is your evidence of being them being born rapists? And I am not talking about education rape OUT of someone, but I think a lot of rapists have been influenced by their surroundings, so my thought is to get to them before they cross over into 'rapist' territory (whether before or after raping someone as your definition). Of course, another option is people are born with tendencies towards certain behavior, and it can be enhanced, or suppressed, or neither by environment. Combo nature and nurture.
And I'll watch that video, Tara. I know that neither TJ nor thunderf00t are wrong (or right ;D ) about everything. You're right about empathy too.
LP - there's a very weird thing going on with that whole boyhood to manhood thing, yeah. It's very disheartening to say the least :/
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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 3:14 pm
I like that idea. I don't think any rapist (except maybe a sociopath or something) thinks that raping is a good thing to do. I think they know its wrong every time yet they still do it. I do believe that the environment does play a small part but it pales in comparison to genetics. I think our genes play a much larger part in making a person more susceptible to becoming a rapist but as I said earlier, I don't think rapists think what they do is good or nice yet they do it anyway, so that makes me think environment has a much smaller part.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 3:23 pm
(December 9, 2013 at 3:14 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: I like that idea. I don't think any rapist (except maybe a sociopath or something) thinks that raping is a good thing to do. I think they know its wrong every time yet they still do it. I do believe that the environment does play a small part but it pales in comparison to genetics. I think our genes play a much larger part in making a person more susceptible to becoming a rapist but as I said earlier, I don't think rapists think what they do is good or nice yet they do it anyway, so that makes me think environment has a much smaller part.
Hmm, I suppose one way of evaluating their view on their actions would be to find interviews of known rapists where those sort of questions are asked. I will try to find such soon, but see I am stoned and need a cigarette, so upon my return from the outdoors I will search.
And there are many studies that conflict regarding the nature, nurture debate, I doubt we could convince one another of which is dominate or even if they are side by side. Personally, I think genetics are the foundation but the environment is the house, if you will.
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