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RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 7:49 pm
Your emotion and passion are clearly clouding your judgment on this (and that is not because you are a woman before you have a go at me for that) I don't know what video you watched but it specifically states against the accusations you are throwing at it. I can't make you watch all the video but you've lost credibility in my book for not doing so. And hopefully everyone else can see how unreasonable you are being.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 9:09 pm
(December 9, 2013 at 5:52 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote:
I only watched a few mins of the video, so I don't know how it ends. But anyway, I had a lot of issues with it. Some of my issues about that video, and some victim blaming arguments and stuff are as follows.
1) Comparing rape to burglary and mugging. The problem there is that rape isn't theft. It's a physical assault against another person. A better comparison is when Islamaphobes attack women in the street who are wearing a hijab, or attack a man in a turban because they think he's a Muslim. But does anyone say "Well she/he shouldn't have been wearing that!"? Well, yes, probably... But it wouldn't be as acceptable as blaming a woman gor getting raped seems to be.
This feels like it comes from the idea that women are sex objects, and sex is a commodity, so raping us is stealing. I don't like it.
2) Say we could legitimately compare it to burglary. If you have a nice house abd leave your door unlocked or open a window and your house gets robbed; if it goes to court, would you be put on the yourself and questioned about having a nice house and how often you open your doors and windows? Or read a list of times you've willing given away items and money as gifts or for charity, only to have the defense use that information against you and cause the jury to declare the burglar is not guilty, because you left your door open and have a history of giving away gifts? Would your friends and family say "Well, you shouldn't have a nice house if you don't want to get robbed!"
3) It's great that these days (unlike 10 years ago, when I was at school) schools are teaching boys not to rape in the same way that they are taught not to steal. That should definitely be happening more. However, I don't think it helps that girls are equally being told not to get raped. What is that doing to a teenage girl's self esteem? We're actively telling little girls that if they get raped it's partly their fault.
And what is that telling teenage boys? That it's fine to rape someone if they're dressed a certain way, because they can stand up in court and tell them she deserved it and almost certainly get away with it? Hell, with that defense, it probably won't even get as far as court. The police wouldn't even persue the case, they'll just tell the victim there's nothing they can do about it, and that even if it did, they would be the one on trial, not their attacker. That's the reality in Britain, where fewer than 1 in 30 rapes lead to a conviction.
When I watched it, I totally take from it what you did. I very much got the impression that the theft example was an analogy, not a comparison. I seem to remember Thunderf00t repeatedly saying that rape is a completely reprehensible act. I took him to simply mean that there are precautions a person can take which go some way towards reducing the chances of being raped - I certainly didn't get the message that he felt that the victim was in any way to blame. I think one of the main things he took issue with was the last part of the slogan "don't tell me how to dress, tell men not to rape". It's makes for a catchy slogan, but it's also pretty asinine, most people know not to rape just like they know not to commit murder, torture or screw kids. But just because people know it wrong, doesn't mean that they won't do it.
I don't agree with everything he says, but like a lot of people I do like his vids on religion and science (though I find his voice quite annoying). I think a lot of the bad press he's got over this video in particular has been largely unfair.
Re: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 9, 2013 at 10:29 pm (This post was last modified: December 9, 2013 at 10:32 pm by NoraBrimstone.)
OK, I tried to watch it all, I really did. I still couldn't finish it. This time I got as far as the bit where he says being a rapist is a "sexuality" that's natural, just like being gay and kinda got sick in my mouth a bit. I didn't think it could get worse than what I saw last time, I was so wrong!
RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 10, 2013 at 1:04 am
(December 9, 2013 at 10:38 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: Um, ok.... I don't remember that bit. I'm gonna have to watch it again now, 'cause that's just fucked up.
What he is saying by that is that some people have a fucked up sexuality, and educating people out of it is like Christians educating five year olds out of being gay, fucking useless. Truth bad people exist, and yes education on rape and teaching children rape is bad is a good thing, just look at cultures where men are not taught that. However it has gotten to the point were you can't even talk about things that may prevent rape that a women can do.
Here is a few things I propose to prevent rape.
In boys. Teach them that being a man isn't about getting all the "bitches". Women are not objects to be used and abused, they are equals. Also boys especially in Christian or Muslim homes have no way to deal with pent up sexual urges, and quite frankly you need something. Desperate guys will do some crazy shit for sex (Note most will not resort to rape). Third is simple. No means no. Fourthly applies mostly to Muslims, if you would not want done to you, do not do it to women even if you marry one (I.E sex on demand) and if you think something your religion says is right is wrong, trust your gut.
For girls. There is the obvious, like don't walk through shady parts of town at night night ( good advice for all). Learn to use a gun or mace (Again good advice for all), And keep a cellphone handy (again). Also, do not sexually flirt with people you do not intend to have sex with, as that can be a trigger for rapists, but more importantly it will make people hate you.One more good point to remember too is do let a drink or food out of your sight. Also as thunderfoot said in the video, body language, you should always appear self possessed and confident. Rapists are often called predator for a reason, they go for the weak, is one. Another that I cannot stress enough is REPORT IT TO THE POLICE ASAP! The more these pieces of shit think they can get away with it the more they will do it.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 10, 2013 at 3:22 am (This post was last modified: December 10, 2013 at 3:24 am by MindForgedManacle.)
I don't think there's anything wrong with feminism itself, just feminism as such, i.e how many feminists present themselves and their position. Raging against the patriarchy and priviledge like a maniac will only be tolerable for so long before I just give up.
As for the topic, I never really like TJ all that much, aside from maybe some of his older content. I disagree much of the time, but I guess he's just not for me, though I'm not overly familiar with his videos. Thunderf00t is in much the same boat for me, but he also has done and said some pretty retarted stuff, though he has been straw manned to death by many of his detractors, even on things I disagree with him on.
There are a lot of terrific YT atheists and such like TheoreticalBullshit who I have no qualms with at all.
"The reason things will never get better is because people keep electing these rich cocksuckers who don't give a shit about you."
-George Carlin
RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 10, 2013 at 4:13 am
I've skimmed over that guys critique and its ridiculous. He has done this thing that you see a lot of extreme feminists do on the internet. He has taken what thunderf00t has says and interpreted it in the worst possible way, every time. I doesn't matter how it was meant to come over, if it can be taken to offend, a feminist will make it offensive. Just a little twist here, a little warp there, and voilla! OFFENSIVE. Nora, you and that guy are just seeing what you want to see in order to justify your anger at him. Its almost like a stereotypical feminazi: can't take any criticism of feminism and instead goes on the offensive by purposefully misinterpreting the opponent in order to make him look like a misogynist
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 10, 2013 at 4:34 am
(December 10, 2013 at 1:04 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote:
(December 9, 2013 at 10:38 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: Um, ok.... I don't remember that bit. I'm gonna have to watch it again now, 'cause that's just fucked up.
What he is saying by that is that some people have a fucked up sexuality, and educating people out of it is like Christians educating five year olds out of being gay, fucking useless. Truth bad people exist, and yes education on rape and teaching children rape is bad is a good thing, just look at cultures where men are not taught that. However it has gotten to the point were you can't even talk about things that may prevent rape that a women can do.
Here is a few things I propose to prevent rape.
In boys. Teach them that being a man isn't about getting all the "bitches". Women are not objects to be used and abused, they are equals. Also boys especially in Christian or Muslim homes have no way to deal with pent up sexual urges, and quite frankly you need something. Desperate guys will do some crazy shit for sex (Note most will not resort to rape). Third is simple. No means no. Fourthly applies mostly to Muslims, if you would not want done to you, do not do it to women even if you marry one (I.E sex on demand) and if you think something your religion says is right is wrong, trust your gut.
For girls. There is the obvious, like don't walk through shady parts of town at night night ( good advice for all). Learn to use a gun or mace (Again good advice for all), And keep a cellphone handy (again). Also, do not sexually flirt with people you do not intend to have sex with, as that can be a trigger for rapists, but more importantly it will make people hate you.One more good point to remember too is do let a drink or food out of your sight. Also as thunderfoot said in the video, body language, you should always appear self possessed and confident. Rapists are often called predator for a reason, they go for the weak, is one. Another that I cannot stress enough is REPORT IT TO THE POLICE ASAP! The more these pieces of shit think they can get away with it the more they will do it.
Lemon, I love how passionate you are about this... but the bolds I added are a little off.
For the first one, people flirt. It doesn't always mean something, and it's certainly not a guarantee of anything. If I'm flirting with a guy at a party, I'm not necessarily saying "let's have sex", and if he takes it that way, it doesn't give him permission to assault me. Also, if I'm being myself, fuck off to anyone who doesn't like me!
For the second one, are non-self-possessed, non-confident women just supposed to hole themselves up in a corner because they don't possess those traits? I mean, I'm shy. It's hard sometimes for me to roll up into a room like I own it. Are my two choices to stay home or to possibly get raped?
I know you didn't mean any of it like that, and I'm pretty sure the only reason you're using those as examples is that you're naive, but you need to know that these examples of how a woman should "behave" are only perpetuating this ridiculous rape culture. Your naivete is charming and innocent and sweet, but not completely realistic.
Re: RE: Maybe People Should Not Look Up To YouTube Atheist
December 10, 2013 at 5:38 am (This post was last modified: December 10, 2013 at 5:39 am by NoraBrimstone.)
(December 10, 2013 at 4:13 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: I've skimmed over that guys critique and its ridiculous. He has done this thing that you see a lot of extreme feminists do on the internet. He has taken what thunderf00t has says and interpreted it in the worst possible way, every time. I doesn't matter how it was meant to come over, if it can be taken to offend, a feminist will make it offensive. Just a little twist here, a little warp there, and voilla! OFFENSIVE. Nora, you and that guy are just seeing what you want to see in order to justify your anger at him. Its almost like a stereotypical feminazi: can't take any criticism of feminism and instead goes on the offensive by purposefully misinterpreting the opponent in order to make him look like a misogynist
Sorry? Do you actually think that or are you taking the piss? I bet you didn't even read the whole thing. It's totally accurate and has a complete transcript of the video.
Aside from the heavily misogynistic video, I've also been looking at some of the other shit he's spewed online. Like, how he doesn't believe rape exists within marriage or relationships. Oh no, to him it's just "bad sex" if one party doesn't consent. I strongly suspect the guy is a rapist himself.
