Freeing the mind slaves

[Rayaan]

And after 13 years you know what I realise? Ignorance is bliss!

Maybe I didn't understand you well, but I find that comment pretty contradictory with some of the other things you said elsewhere in this forum.

Like in the following posts ... where you revere studying, learning, using reason, and science:

---

One cannot force anyone to believe anything. One can force people to study something, but if you think that human evolution is not yet proven, is studying it not the correct thing to do? Study helps us learn more.

I believe it was Thomas paine who said

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead"

Science is fun!

---

[Jacob(smooth)]

So, the "Yes" in number 1 = You do believe that you are in a matrix, and the "No" in number 2 = You don't want to get out the matrix.

But in your OP you wrote: "Religion is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy."

So you wrote that religion is a system and that the system is our "enemy," yet you still want to stay in that kind of system? That doesn't make sense to me.

It appears to be your enemy . Well, not yours exactly, but most people here.

We're all in a fantasy world, that private little space between our ears. To quote Milton, "The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven..”. We will never know reality other than what our sensory apparatus and cognitive process can derive. I find life is much easier when you learn the trick of remoulding the matrix as you see fit.

{Emphasis mine).

Well, in your OP you were talking about those people who are trapped in religion specifically, but now, you say that we are all in a fantasy world; the whole world is a fantasy.

Then that would mean that the whole world is like a matrix, not just religion as you implied in your OP, right?

Not precisely. I think that we all exist in the little space between our ears. Objective reality may exist but our sample of it is the bit between our ears. Like a photograph of the eiffel tower, the eiffel tower exists, but the photo is not the real thing. Now imagine the only way that anyone could see the eiffel tower was in photos. It would be real, but our impressions of it would not be, would be mere simulacrums. I think both religion and reality are like that.

---

And after 13 years you know what I realise? Ignorance is bliss!

Maybe I didn't understand you well, but I find that comment pretty contradictory with some of the other things you said elsewhere in this forum.

Like in the following posts ... where you revere studying, learning, using reason, and science:

---

One cannot force anyone to believe anything. One can force people to study something, but if you think that human evolution is not yet proven, is studying it not the correct thing to do? Study helps us learn more.

I believe it was Thomas paine who said

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead"

Science is fun!

---

'The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge"

I like ignorance. Its the first step on the road to knowledge. Without the acceptance of ignorance there would be no scientific discovery. In matters temporal I like ignorance because it stimulates discovery and learning. In matters spiritual and to a lesser degree psychological where actual certain knowledge is very hard to come by I much prefer to take a postion of "I think but don't really know" than one of "I know".

I guess the dissonance you spotted was between areas where we CAN find out the "truth" and areas we can't. We start from a position of ignorance with both. In the former, we strive to move on from that place. In the latter I think it is better to say that we remain in ignorance (but posit untestable hypotheses as working models) than to pretend that we have an answer.

Does that make sense? What I find blissful in matters religious is that its OK to not be sure.

[Rayaan]

It appears to be your enemy . Well, not yours exactly, but most people here.

What about you? Does religion appear to be your enemy?

If the answer to that is no, then why did you write "fits disturbingly well doesn't it ..." at the end of your OP? Who's viewpoint is that?

Also, what initially made you want to make that same post in the section about banning the burka?

Not precisely. I think that we all exist in the little space between our ears. Objective reality may exist but our sample of it is the bit between our ears. Like a photograph of the eiffel tower, the eiffel tower exists, but the photo is not the real thing. Now imagine the only way that anyone could see the eiffel tower was in photos. It would be real, but our impressions of it would not be, would be mere simulacrums. I think both religion and reality are like that.

Then, the question is, what was the purpose of pointing out religion specifically (in your original post) if both religion and reality are like that?

What I find blissful in matters religious is that its OK to not be sure.

So, you find bliss in religion because in religion it's okay to not be sure ... but now I think that you contradicted yourself once again ...

In this post, you wrote:

"The difference between science and religion is that science allows for "we don't know" and does not claim to yet have all the answers."

In that sentence, you pointed out the difference between science and religion, which in essence is that science allows for skepticism; it allows for "we don't know" and does not claim to yet have all the answers unlike religion does. I agree with that.

But, in this thread, you said that you find bliss in religion because religion allows you to not be sure. So it's okay for you to say "I am not sure."

1. Religion allows for "I am not sure."
2. Science allows for "I don't know."

But what did you say was the difference again?
"The difference between science and religion is that science allows for "we don't know" and does not claim to yet have all the answers."

^ That would mean that religion doesn't allow "we don't know" and it claims to have all the answers (unlike science), which contradicts with:

"What I find blissful in matters religious is that its OK to not be sure."

[Bob Kelso]

I like this guy can we keep him? I promise I'll do my chores.

[Jacob(smooth)]

@ rayaan
Firstly, thanks for fixing my quotes.

RE religion, yes sometimes it feels like it is. More specifically other people's religion is a pain in my arse. Religion is like farts, you tend to mind your own.

RE not being sure, I guess I'm talking about the difference between the religion see in others and the religion I practice myself. We could run a poll for the theists to ask how much doubt they have if you like.

[Rayaan]

@ rayaan
Firstly, thanks for fixing my quotes.

You're welcome.

RE religion, yes sometimes it feels like it is. More specifically other people's religion is a pain in my arse. Religion is like farts, you tend to mind your own.

Won't argue with that.

RE not being sure, I guess I'm talking about the difference between the religion see in others and the religion I practice myself.

I disagree. I mean, it's pretty clear what difference you were talking about.

You wrote (emphasis mine):
"The difference between science and religion is that science allows for 'we don't know' and does not claim to yet have all the answers."


It's alright - you don't have to elaborate on that if you are too confused now.

[feeling]

How are you planning to free mind slaves if you can't free yourself yet?

[Jacob(smooth)]

Yes, I am now well and truly confused. Only to be expected.

And feeling, I actually quite like my matrix.

[Rayaan]

And feeling, I actually quite like my matrix.

... which I think kind of goes against the gist of your original post here.

You wrote that religion is like an enemy, and yet you like it.

:S

[pocaracas]

And feeling, I actually quite like my matrix.

... which I think kind of goes against the gist of your original post here.

You wrote that religion is like an enemy, and yet you like it.

:S

Some people like being on the bad-guy's side...


More potential reward...