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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 9, 2014 at 7:44 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2014 at 7:48 pm by Fidel_Castronaut.)
(January 9, 2014 at 12:46 pm)It Is i Wrote: (January 9, 2014 at 12:40 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: And if she doesn't care about it's wellbeing, and indeed there are complications both in and post birth as a result? Then she and the child will face challenges. I only hope that this hypothetical mother and child duo have the loving support of others to surround them.
Is it fair to classify the (un)intentional impact (such as, perhaps, disability) of ignorant and stupid behavior on the part of the woman against a child that has no ability to voice an objection as a 'challenge'? These could be life altering complications that the mother has willingly decided to impose on her child. Ignorance can be an excuse in some cases (thalidomide), but in cases of, say, drug use it can only be selfishness.
Would you advocate the arrest of a woman who it could be proved harmed their foetus by (for example) smoking and the removal of that child once born from her care?
I'm simply voicing concerns here about the carte blanche of 'her body, her decision'. In most societies I'm familiar with we don't ascribe this position to every behavior, indeed, if we take the harm principle as one benchmark, a woman who harms her unborn foetus by engaging in a given activity is in violation of this principle and is just as guilty of abuse as a man who gives a child the back of his hand in anger. In this not the case?
What if they don't have a loving family to support them? Surely if it's 'her body, her decision' for the entirety of child rearing then a loving family should be superfluous?
I appreciate your thoughts.
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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 18, 2014 at 11:50 pm
North Carolina ultrasound law struck down.
http://news.yahoo.com/north-carolina-for...02031.html
Quote:The North Carolina legislature ordered doctors to show and talk about an ultrasound before a woman has an abortion. A federal judge ruled that the law violates the First Amendment right of physicians.
Now watch them shriek about how they are being deprived of their rights by "activist judges!"
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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 19, 2014 at 3:20 am
(January 9, 2014 at 6:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You are basically sentencing a woman to 15-18 years of hard labor for getting pregnant. What gives you that right? Well that's a load of crap. She is quite able to adopt it out if she doesn't want it.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 19, 2014 at 3:38 am
(January 19, 2014 at 3:20 am)Aractus Wrote: (January 9, 2014 at 6:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You are basically sentencing a woman to 15-18 years of hard labor for getting pregnant. What gives you that right? Well that's a load of crap. She is quite able to adopt it out if she doesn't want it.
You are still regarding her as nothing more than a breeding machine.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 19, 2014 at 9:51 am
No, I'm simply stating a fact: that she's not forced to raise the child and has the option of adoption.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 19, 2014 at 9:57 am
(January 19, 2014 at 9:51 am)Aractus Wrote: No, I'm simply stating a fact: that she's not forced to raise the child and has the option of adoption.
And you are not acknowledging the fact that she also does not have to go through with the pregnancy to satisfy your ego.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 19, 2014 at 5:57 pm
Aractus, If I kidnapped you right now, tied you up and then used your kidneys to filter my blood. Would that be ok?
Every person has a right to life, but not at the expense of someone elses.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 20, 2014 at 1:49 am
(This post was last modified: January 20, 2014 at 1:54 am by Violet.)
I tend to favor the reality of persons living today over the possibility of persons living tomorrow. The adult creature is almost certainly more useful today than the infant will be within its first three years.
Cases where it could be otherwise are in regards to a longstanding monarchy, or a situation where a serious/critical absence of females is upon the surviving population.
(January 19, 2014 at 5:57 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Every person has a right to life, but not at the expense of someone elses.
Do they? There are far more heinous things in this world than to kill... and some lives have well the right to exist, regardless of how many might die by their hand.
Of course... this is in regards to 'rights' existing as some sort of foundational reality, which they do not. Most people don't seem to like hearing the truth though, so 'whatever'.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 30, 2014 at 7:23 am
Sorry for the late reply, but...
(January 6, 2014 at 2:10 pm)EgoRaptor Wrote: Women are people, & they have to be responsible. If you aren't responsible enough to use contraception or get an abortion earlier, maybe having a child would do you some good. If a woman proves that she isn't responsible enough to avoid or terminate a pregnancy, what makes you think she's a good candidate to raise a child?
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Pro abortion or not
January 30, 2014 at 8:49 am
I'm pro-choice
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