Virgin Births a dime a dozen

[xpastor]

I'm I think I missed the part in the op where a
Xpastor actually said that the virgin is proof of divinity, because what I read demonstrated a possible origin of the story and didnt really address the deity bit. Maybe drich read a different post.

In the OP I did write:

Personally, I think the claim [of virgin birth] was more likely to have originated with his fan club after they started to claim divine status for him. There are plenty of examples in the ancient world of hero-figures whose birth was said to have resulted from a human woman being impregnated by a god—e.g., Alexander the Great.

If Drich wants to insist on calling virgin birth a sign of divinity, that's OK with me. It is in no way inconsistent, as he seems to think, with what I said above, that the belief in the virgin birth is associated with a claim to divine status.

Of course, we differ profoundly on whether it actually happened. Just to clarify a phrase which the rest of you probably got but may have gone past my clueless critic, when I speak of Jesus' "fan club" I mean the early Christians, the ones telling the stories about Jesus, some accurate recollection of his teaching and some legendary miracle stories to make a point, both of which were later incorporated into the written gospels.

[Lemonvariable72]

I'm I think I missed the part in the op where a
Xpastor actually said that the virgin is proof of divinity, because what I read demonstrated a possible origin of the story and didnt really address the deity bit. Maybe drich read a different post.

In the OP I did write:

Personally, I think the claim [of virgin birth] was more likely to have originated with his fan club after they started to claim divine status for him. There are plenty of examples in the ancient world of hero-figures whose birth was said to have resulted from a human woman being impregnated by a god—e.g., Alexander the Great.

If Drich wants to insist on calling virgin birth a sign of divinity, that's OK with me. It is in no way inconsistent, as he seems to think, with what I said above, that the belief in the virgin birth is associated with a claim to divine status.

Of course, we differ profoundly on whether it actually happened. Just to clarify a phrase which the rest of you probably got but may have gone past my clueless critic, when I speak of Jesus' "fan club" I mean the early Christians, the ones telling the stories about Jesus, some accurate recollection of his teaching and some legendary miracle stories to make a point, both of which were later incorporated into the written gospels.

Okay I see what you mean. I would to add one thing that backs up your point. Mark, our earliest gospel has no virgin birth, and many scholars believe that the first copies of luke had no birth scene either. That just leaves Matthew which was written ( correct me if I'm wrong) about 70-80 AD. In a era with little literacy and average life expectancy of 40 years that means most people that were old enough to remember Jesus in any real way were dead by the time Matthew was written in Greece.

[Drich]

Once again, Drich reads things that aren't there. Is it so hard to just read the words that are written.

As far as virgin births are concerned, I maintain that I am one, because the thought of my parents having sex is just gross.

it appears I correctly "read into" the xpastor intentions, otherwise he would have 'engauged' my post.

[Doubting Thomas]

Whats surprising is that the Gospel writers would include such an awkward/embarrassing detail - Mary becoming pregnant while betrothed to Joseph.

How the heck else are you going to get the "Jesus is the son of God" idea across without having Mary impregnated by God? If she'd gotten pregnant with Jesus after she and Joseph had been married, then everyone would think that Jesus was just Joseph's kid. Having Mary pregnant before she was married and while still a virgin made the divine conception story look more magical.

[xpastor]

it appears I correctly "read into" the xpastor intentions, otherwise he would have 'engauged' my post.

Among my other work experience I spent 5 years teaching English as a second language before I went into the ministry, so I can usually figure out what someone means even if their grammar and vocabulary is shaky.

However, this time I have to ask: Drich, what the fuck do you mean? Does anyone have a clue what the fuck he is trying to say? Does anyone even think that he has a clue about what the fuck he is saying?

[Tonus]

How the heck else are you going to get the "Jesus is the son of God" idea across without having Mary impregnated by God?

I think it's the "virgin" part that kind of throws it. It may have been used due to a mistranslation of a word meaning "young lady" or "girl" but it might also have been a stroke of inspiration because a virgin would be seen as "pure." God inseminating human women isn't all that rare in mythology, if I am not mistaken, though usually they were more "hands on" about it.

Or perhaps the part that makes it complicated is the "god as man" part. "Messiah" means savior or deliverer, and Jesus could simply have been another of the many messengers of god sent to show that Yahweh hadn't forsaken his people. Perhaps the gospel writers wanted to add something to what had become a pretty tired plot? Why send just another messiah, when god could send... GOD??!?!

I just realized... the first gospel was actually written by George Lucas.

[Mister Agenda]

A supervisor at work who has visited the USA, told me that Americans in general are quite dumb. Now I know why she her comment was based on careful observations, rather than some insult.

I've only met one person who claimed a modern virgin birth (his sister). He was from Austrailia and attributed her condition to human parthenogenesis.

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Whats surprising is that the Gospel writers would include such an awkward/embarrassing detail - Mary becoming pregnant while betrothed to Joseph.

I agree. It's things like that which lean me to put the probability of an historical Jesus over 50%.

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born in Bethlehem, who had prophetic ancestry, rode a donkey, was born of a virgin, got Crucified...

The prophetic ancestry and virgin birth are at odds. The messiah was supposed to be of the male line of David, which he was not if his father was God, but I suppose the awesomeness of having God for a father trumps fulfilling that particular prophecy.

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it appears I correctly "read into" the xpastor intentions, otherwise he would have 'engauged' my post.

You have an awfully peculiar idea of what would make someone want to engage with you.

[Faith No More]

it appears I correctly "read into" the xpastor intentions, otherwise he would have 'engauged' my post.

I think you should stop relying on your ability to perceive and understand others' motivations.

It sucks.

[Faith No More]

Among my other work experience I spent 5 years teaching English as a second language before I went into the ministry, so I can usually figure out what someone means even if their grammar and vocabulary is shaky.

However, this time I have to ask: Drich, what the fuck do you mean? Does anyone have a clue what the fuck he is trying to say? Does anyone even think that he has a clue about what the fuck he is saying?

No, he has no clue, but the real problem is that he thinks he does.

The key to talking with Drich is to know when to walk away. When you start thinking to yourself, "what the fuck is even going on in his head," it's just best to not reply and let that conversation fade away.

[Angrboda]

Aractus, for instance, is a conservative Christian. I disagree with almost everything he believes about the bible, but I respect him because he is honest and intelligent, even if I think he is mistaken about many things.