Demons

[fr0d0]

And have you any statistics what-so-ever that back up the idea is good for our "spiritual" health? The studies i have seen suggested otherwise, such as finding strong correlation between those who partake in a religion and those with developed mental disorders such as anxiety, depression, delusion and paranoia.

Well a quick google produces the opposite to what you quoted there VOID

"Spirituality involves a dimension of human experience that psychiatrists are increasingly interested in, because of its potential benefits to mental health."
- The Royal Society of Psychiatrists

"Spirituality is repeatedly found to be an important component of a person’s well-being. Despite this, people’s spiritual needs are often seen to be neglected during treatment and in developing and managing care plans for day-to-day activities, and even in some cases seen to be part of the individuals’ psychosis or delusions."
- Spirituality and Mental Illness (rethink.org)

"Spirituality can help people maintain good mental health"
- Mental Health Foundation

[theVOID]

And have you any statistics what-so-ever that back up the idea is good for our "spiritual" health? The studies i have seen suggested otherwise, such as finding strong correlation between those who partake in a religion and those with developed mental disorders such as anxiety, depression, delusion and paranoia.

Well a quick google produces the opposite to what you quoted there VOID

"Spirituality involves a dimension of human experience that psychiatrists are increasingly interested in, because of its potential benefits to mental health."
- The Royal Society of Psychiatrists

"Spirituality is repeatedly found to be an important component of a person’s well-being. Despite this, people’s spiritual needs are often seen to be neglected during treatment and in developing and managing care plans for day-to-day activities, and even in some cases seen to be part of the individuals’ psychosis or delusions."
- Spirituality and Mental Illness (rethink.org)

"Spirituality can help people maintain good mental health"
- Mental Health Foundation

Spirituality is not Religion, rather Religion is the spirituality concerned with one or more sky daddies. Spirituality does not even have to have connection to the supernatural or pesudoscientific blabber, though it often does, it is more the sense of ones self and their connection to the environment around them - Now, go back and find studies on Religion and mental health - you'll notice the negative correlations immediately in the statistics.

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Frodo, by your understanding, a psychopathic murderer would be possessed by a demon, correct?

Those types of people generally have a chemical imbalance in their brains which causes this sort of antisocial behaviour - they're often born with it. So, would you say that the demon possessed the child at birth? Maybe it's the parents' fault for not protecting the child?

Just so you know, I'm not trying to gang up on you or anything, lol.

The psychiatrists love to bring up this whole "Chemical imbalance" in the brain because it helps them sell you drugs. To be perfectly clear to everyone here - there is no evidence what-so-ever that suggests that "Chemical Imbalances" in the brain are responsible for any psychosomatic behaviors what so ever, nor is there any test that can be carried out to look for these "imbalances" with any level of certainty or even a hypothesis on how these tests could be done. The main reason for the "Chemical imbalance" thinking is because of the fact that many of these mental illnesses are helped by the introduction of a chemical. It is thought that the chemicals were balancing the brain, but without any evidence to suggest that imbalance is indeed the cause, the success of psychiatry seems to be a long long history of trial and error.

New thinking supposes that many mental disorders are actually caused by the physical topology of the brain and an unexpected association of negative memories with mundane or even positive tasks; the effectiveness of drugs in treating them is more of a filter on the conscious mind than a restoration of chemical balance. It is supposed that Schizophrenia, for example, is the gradual confusion of ones own persona with a persona of a known individual, or even characteristics that together make a new individual resulting in what appears to be a new persona for said individual. Bi-polar is assumed to be a similar confusion - linking typical fight-or-flight and often extreme emotional responses with unrelated tasks.

[fr0d0]

Frodo, by your understanding, a psychopathic murderer would be possessed by a demon, correct?

Incorrect. I wouldn't know.

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Spirituality is not Religion, rather Religion is the spirituality concerned with one or more sky daddies. Spirituality does not even have to have connection to the supernatural or pesudoscientific blabber, though it often does, it is more the sense of ones self and their connection to the environment around them - Now, go back and find studies on Religion and mental health - you'll notice the negative correlations immediately in the statistics.

'Religion' in the sense that it gets abused is always bad yes. No argument there. Real religious experience as stated in the articles I linked is only positive and recognised as such.

[amw79]

Thanks for the info Chatpilot.

I'm interested in the casting out of demons, as its one of the elements of the NT which is clearly supernatural, clearly anti-science, and can't be explained away via metaphor and allegory.

I note that the 'explanation' offered is some vague mumblings about "expelling that inside us that prevents us from achieving a full life", whereas I don't think this is what the bible stories are about.

The bible stories are, as you say CP, about people possesed by fallen angels who then make people behave in certain ways. Jesus is able to talk directly to the demons, and cast them out at his will.

There really is no hidden message or subtext with these stories, they are simply to show that Jesus had 'supernatural powers', strengthening the god claim. However, I find it interesting how Christians who otherwise claim to be pro-science and logical still have to try to defend such ancient nonsense.

[chatpilot]

amw demon possession has been a belief that has been around for thousands of years that even predated Christianity. The fact that it is rooted in mythology like religion itself is enough to convince me that it does not exist. Many experts in the field of medicine and psychology have speculated that natural things such as epilepsy and other medical conditions were often confused with so called demon possession or explicated as such. But with increasing knowledge comes clarification and alot has been learned about this matter.

[fr0d0]

Without substantiation chatty the premise that something is false purely because it predates Christianity is fallacious.

[leo-rcc]

Without substantiation chatty the premise that something is false purely because it predates Christianity is fallacious.

I agree.

[theVOID]

Frodo, by your understanding, a psychopathic murderer would be possessed by a demon, correct?

Incorrect. I wouldn't know.

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Spirituality is not Religion, rather Religion is the spirituality concerned with one or more sky daddies. Spirituality does not even have to have connection to the supernatural or pesudoscientific blabber, though it often does, it is more the sense of ones self and their connection to the environment around them - Now, go back and find studies on Religion and mental health - you'll notice the negative correlations immediately in the statistics.

'Religion' in the sense that it gets abused is always bad yes. No argument there. Real religious experience as stated in the articles I linked is only positive and recognised as such.

You don't get to ignore the negative and focus strictly on positive experience, you need to be aware of and take into account each and every instance equally to form a meaningful conclusion and avoid being woefully ignorant on the subject. There is only correlation between religion and poor mental health, either religion causes the mental ailments (unlikely) or it says something about the type of people likely to believe a religions claims.

[fr0d0]

Same goes for you. Which describes religion most accurately? For me it's the links I posted.

[theVOID]

You mean those piddly 2-3 paragraph links for the layman you posted? Don't make me laugh.

Go find some real studies, ones about 'Religion' and not the umbrella term 'spirituality'.