Demons

[amw79]

So, where do Christians stand on the many exorcisms that Jesus performed within the New Testament?

Several questions come to mind. Do Christians believe the people written about in the NT were genuinely possessed by evil demons? My reading of the bible is that these are not allegorical or metaphorical tales of morality, but rather straightforward examples of Jesus' power. If possessions are genuine occurances, why do they not happen any more? Is it not more reasonable to assume that Jesus was "casting out demons" from the frail and most likely, mentally ill? Why did Jesus not know this? Are the Stories just made up? In which case, why believe any other narratives within the NT?

If you don't accept possessions by evil demons, then why follow Jesus - who clearly did. Would the son of God make such a mistake?

The famous one is the account in 3 gospels of him in Gadarenes casting out the demons from two men into nearby pigs, who then willingly drown themselves.

These are obviously overt supernatural claims, (and in this case dubious morality as well).

No doubt these questions have come up before, and there's likely well prepared apologetics on the subject, however I'd be interested to hear what people (particularly Christians) think.

[fr0d0]

Why don't you think this happens now? I assumed these things could be attributed to mental illness etc... which was described in those times as 'demon possessed'.

Why 'dubious morality'? Supernatural perhaps. Although it could be explained with psychological influence.

[amw79]

You haven't answered any of the questions, just asked questions of your own.

Do you believe in people being possessed by demons? Clearly the writers of the NT and Jesus did.

The dubious morality is sending a herd of innocent animals to their death.

[fr0d0]

Yes I believe in those things. (Sorry, I said in the other thread and didn't realise I hadn't said so here)

[amw79]

So, people are possesed by demons, both in Jesus' time and today?

Are some mentally ill people possessed? How do you determine who is possessed by evil spirits, and who are just ill?

[fr0d0]

Yep then & now.

I guess some illness being apart from health is anti God... so illness can be bad (can I reserve the right to change this? ). I need to qualify the subject of religion which is spiritual health.

[Autumnlicious]

/snip
The dubious morality is sending a herd of innocent animals to their death.

The anthropomorphizing you just pulled kinda killed it.

The way I was raised, Christian demons were self-interested entities that served the only purpose of driving usually a set of emotions and behaviours that are aberrant to society. As they are counter to Christian angels, also taught to me as the "hands" of God and therefore extensions of him, it seems to me that then Christian demons are 'lost extensions of God' or a form of automaton - thoroughly aware of God's existence yet working against Him.

Meh. It is nutty. Funny enough, the Norse interpretation of demons stem also from a self interested entity partaking in aberrant actions. Japanese demons are similar, but serve as outgrowths of the activities of nature and humanity, from forest sprites to that silly demon that drinks lamp oil or the one that lives in your sock drawer to more malicious forms like accursed people twisted to express an emotion, usually rage, greed or despair.

Crazy, hnm?

[amw79]

Thanks for your candour fr0d0, no offense but you're insane.

I'm sure you're an intelligent chap, but how do you reconcile all your apologetically inspired beliefs about god being non-temporal, who exists outside of human knowledge blah blah blah, which try their best to conform to the scientifically confirmed ordered world in which we live; with the belief that men get ill becuase they have demons inside them.

You are exactly why religion is dangerous. Rather than accepting that people are born differently, and working to understand these differences, you'd rather explain things away with the notion of demons.

Go to a pyschiatrist and tell him that you believe somebody has an evil spirit inside him and see what happens.

[fr0d0]

Blimey I'm trying to help you with this, not that I give a fuck about it, and you fukkin hang me with my first effort to help you out. Sorry I tried!

Psychiatry fails because it fails to look at this aspect of humanity IMO. Pure science doesn't go far enough to heal the whole person.

You obviously didn't see my qualifier that we're talking about 'spiritual health' rather than all illness. Although I know some who think that the Garden of Eden was a reference to perfect health achievable in closeness to God, and our desires for what causes us ill naturally results in 'illness'.

Are we finished?

[amw79]

fr0d0, you weren't trying to help anyone except yourself. You're clearly very uncomfortable with this issue, and I don't blame you.

I wasn't "talking about spiritual health" as you said, I was talking about Jesus casting out devils, into animals, and how Christians (including yourself) believe this bullshit.

You can talk about vague garden of eden references all you like, but we weren't talking about that, and it certainly doesn't detract from the fact that you genuinely believe in evil spirits, possession, and exorcism.

Stick to Derek Acorah mate.
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Synackaon

I wasn't anthropomorphizing anything, that means to imbue with human qualities. I was referring to the fact that Jesus sent demons into pigs, forcing them to kill themselves, when surely he could have exorcised the demons without harm to any living creature (being omnipitant and all).