God: No magic required

[houseofcantor]

Spent a coupla hours chasing Larry's Disqus. He's smart, educated, articulate, respected; I'd say he's a good dude.

Its all rather nice - as it comes across - in a warm blanket kind of a way but I do worry that this is at the superficial level.

Is there a problem with that? He's a doctor trying to help people far more than a proselytizer trying to convert people.

[max-greece]

Spent a coupla hours chasing Larry's Disqus. He's smart, educated, articulate, respected; I'd say he's a good dude.

Its all rather nice - as it comes across - in a warm blanket kind of a way but I do worry that this is at the superficial level.

Is there a problem with that? He's a doctor trying to help people far more than a proselytizer trying to convert people.

Do I come across as attacking the guy? He does indeed appear to be a nice guy albeit a bit delusional. I'm merely assessing his beliefs and attempting to see both if I can understand them and, theoretically at least, see if there is anything to it.

And I thought I was being so gentle....

[houseofcantor]

Do I come across as attacking the guy?

My general pronouncement came before my quoted pronouncement. So, no.

Rasetsu, however...

[Angrboda]

[Whateverist]

.

Here's a challenge, which I'm sure that everyone will reject, a priori (but maybe not forever; just keep it at the back of your mind for possible future use).

This really isn't about me, personally, but I can use myself as an example. I was a pretty hard core secular agnostic most of my life. But I'm a cancer doctor and a health nut (haven't eaten red meat for 40 years; work out; etc.etc.). I was impressed by the studies indicating a longevity advantage to religion/spirituality with the population equivalent to curing all forms of cancer. I also developed a personal morality problem which was refractory to self-help.

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I made the decision to proceed with a "clinical trial." Was it possible for me to develop belief in God, and could I find a religion which would foster said belief, and, if so, would this make a positive difference in my life?

What I did was to pick out three different religions. For the better part of a year, I attended services in each of the three religions. While in each service, I suspended belief, in the same fashion as if I were attending a stage play in which there were audience participation. I did everything that the other people did. When they stood, I stood. When they sang, I sang. When they prayed, I prayed (though not initially sure that anyone was listening). I kept my heart open to everything; I rejected nothing.

At a certain point, I got to feeling that someone out there was listening to me and, later on, that someone out there was engaging in a conversation with me. Why would God do that? Again, for the same sort of reason that I might talk to a cat, if said cat could talk to me. Lots of perfectly logical reasons.

Anyway, to my astonishment, a lot of it started to feel very real to me. At a certain point, I made the decision to "join" one of the three religions which I'd auditioned. Not because I thought that it was the "true" religion. It's exactly analogous to making friends with someone who was fluent in three languages, other than English. So, if I wanted to talk to my new friend, I'd have to learn one of the three languages spoken by this new friend. So I'd try to learn the three different languages simultaneously, but, at a certain point, just decide to go with the language which came most easily to me.

This effort I made to consciously develop a sense of religious spirituality has had an incredible effect on me. I can't say that I'm a changed man, but I can say that I'm happier, mentally healthier, and have at least a modicum of improved self control. I can honestly say that the one hour per week I spend in the formal religious service is the very best hour of my week. I leave the assembly feeling uplifted -- like walking on air, to use the usual refrain.

I don't believe in Hell. Never have; doubt that I ever will (though, in the interests of avoiding certitude, I won't assert that it positively for sure doesn't exist, in some form). I don't really believe in heaven, either -- meaning that I don't have a strong faith in an afterlife. I think it's plausible; our loaf of bread size mass of neural connections does create a bioelectrical-based consciousness, which includes a prodigious amount of memory and knowledge. Perhaps it all gets assimilated into the dark energy of the universe, in the same way that the Star Trek Borg assimilated all consciousness in its path. But I view heaven as being the Great Perhaps (as opposed to the Great Reward).

I don't do it because I'm afraid of Hell or afraid of death or because I want God to cure the illness of a loved one. I do it because there were logical reasons to try to do it (physical and mental health benefits and a problem with personal morality). I keep doing it because it worked better than I could have imagined and because it continues to work.

And, yes, certitude is one of the greatest of all poisons.

I've got a little blog where I discuss some of this stuff in slightly more detail:

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

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I failed to find a challenge in what followed in that post but I gather that you are asking something like

"if it were possible to be happier, perhaps more stress-free and maybe even extend your life line by consciously endeavoring to believe in a religion/god .. would you do it?"

I may have that wrong but I couldn't find an unambiguous challenge in the part I hid. (Please do set me straight if needed.)

Anyway, I have no problem with you or anyone else adopting such a course if it pleases you to do it. I won't challenge your claims of increased happiness. If you say so, more power to you. But would I accept the challenge?

No. No big moral judgement here. I just have decided in my life that the desire to see clearly and understand as best I can is more important to me than a feeling of happiness. There is really very little I would sacrifice for increased happiness. For one thing I don't believe happiness is static or predictable or even measurable in any meaningful way. What works for you, given my dispositions would likely make me miserable.

But do go on out there and carpe some diem on your own terms. You've earned it. You've had a long life and profided much service to many people. So if it makes you happy, go for it. Is there anything else you want from us than to share something that has made you happy?

[Popsicle]

post needs finessing

[Angrboda]

I speculate that the Europeans who left their homes and their families to take the risk that they could make a better life for themselves in a strange new world, an ocean away, were disproportionately likely to believe in the literal meaning of “Godspeed,” than the more timid souls who stayed behind. This ability to believe may have been passed along through genetics, as well as through nurture.

— Larry Weisenthal, The Physical Heretic blog

[The Reality Salesman01]

My, that's inspiring.

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'Merica!...smh

[Whateverist]

I speculate that the Europeans who left their homes and their families to take the risk that they could make a better life for themselves in a strange new world, an ocean away, were disproportionately likely to believe in the literal meaning of “Godspeed,” than the more timid souls who stayed behind. This ability to believe may have been passed along through genetics, as well as through nurture.

— Larry Weisenthal, The Physical Heretic blog

A might quaint.

[Popsicle]

I think everyone may have scared Larry away.