Is Satan shown lying in the bible?

[Chad32]

Usually when they say an indefinite amount of time, they use the plural days of Noah anyway. Not day of Noah.

[Minimalist]

Its yom. not yowm.. and means a literal day. READ A BOOK AND LEARN THE TRUE MEANING OF A WORD. stop with the bullshit !!! Lets start a thread on debating hebrew words and meaning .. I would love a challenge

Bullshit is what G-C does best. Whenever something in his Big Book of Bullshit doesn't make sense he always finds a word to change so that his god doesn't look like such a cocksucker.

When you've been around a while you'll figure out G-C's act. It never gets any better.

[truthBtold]

Its yom. not yowm.. and means a literal day. READ A BOOK AND LEARN THE TRUE MEANING OF A WORD. stop with the bullshit !!! Lets start a thread on debating hebrew words and meaning .. I would love a challenge

And where is day??
17 but as for the tree of knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for as soon as you eat of it, you shall die. " (JPSTanakh). Stop using the translated versions of the hebrew bible.. go to the source!

[Tonus]

The JWs had several ways to rationalize the "on the day you eat from it you will surely die" verse.

1- As soon as they ate of it, they were effectively sentenced to death, so they "died" that day. That one seems like a stretch, since there is nothing that indicates that this is what god meant.
2- The explanation that GC gave, that the reference to "day" was referring to a period of time. That seems awkward for the same reason as 1; the text of Genesis 2:17 seems pretty straightforward as it is.
3- 2 Peter 3:8 says that "one thousand years is like a day" to god, and since Adam and Eve did not live to be 1,000 years old, they died "that day." Again, a very technical and tortured way to interpret god's words.

The issue really is that the warning in Genesis 2:17 is pretty clear: the day you eat from the fruit of that tree, you will die. If the contention is that the verse is mistranslated and really says "if you eat from the fruit, you will die" then I consider that a valid explanation. But if not, there's no way to explain it that doesn't take an otherwise straightforward text and add a heck of a lot of unnecessary twisting to get it to mean something else. If such an otherwise clear text is open to that much interpretation, then why not the rest of the story? How much of it can we twist beyond the apparent meaning so as to support a particular belief or approach?

[Chad32]

With number 3, I'd say the joke's on Yahweh because they still lived so long.

With the other way, it seems like the only reason they would die is because Yahweh kept them from eating the other special fruit afterwards. So they died due to the man in charge being angry. Not because eating the fruit caused them to die. I don't know if the snake knew this or not. It really doesn't give much detail on what he knew, or even why he did it within the context of jewish teachings.

Either way it seems to speak more of Yahweh than the snake/Satan.

[Godscreated]

Its yom. not yowm.. and means a literal day. READ A BOOK AND LEARN THE TRUE MEANING OF A WORD. stop with the bullshit !!! Lets start a thread on debating hebrew words and meaning .. I would love a challenge

Sure, we can do that, I got the word from Strong's Concordance one of the leaders in this field. Yome is the way yowm is pronounced, you've mispelled the pronunciation of the Hebrew word yowm. The word can mean a day, it's used a day far less than daylight and both less than a period of time. So the next time you want to look for bull.... go fall down in a pasture.

GC

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Usually when they say an indefinite amount of time, they use the plural days of Noah anyway. Not day of Noah.

Yown can be singular or plural, but is always translated day.

GC

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The JWs had several ways to rationalize the "on the day you eat from it you will surely die" verse.

1- As soon as they ate of it, they were effectively sentenced to death, so they "died" that day. That one seems like a stretch, since there is nothing that indicates that this is what god meant.
2- The explanation that GC gave, that the reference to "day" was referring to a period of time. That seems awkward for the same reason as 1; the text of Genesis 2:17 seems pretty straightforward as it is.
3- 2 Peter 3:8 says that "one thousand years is like a day" to god, and since Adam and Eve did not live to be 1,000 years old, they died "that day." Again, a very technical and tortured way to interpret god's words.

The issue really is that the warning in Genesis 2:17 is pretty clear: the day you eat from the fruit of that tree, you will die. If the contention is that the verse is mistranslated and really says "if you eat from the fruit, you will die" then I consider that a valid explanation. But if not, there's no way to explain it that doesn't take an otherwise straightforward text and add a heck of a lot of unnecessary twisting to get it to mean something else. If such an otherwise clear text is open to that much interpretation, then why not the rest of the story? How much of it can we twist beyond the apparent meaning so as to support a particular belief or approach?

If God meant they would die the day they ate the fruit, then why is the translation always in the day, wouldn't it be more appropriate to say on the day. Actually they did die that day, it was their spiritual death not a physical one. Before that they were not in need of salvation, they already had possession of eternal life. I know it's already been brought up that it doesn't say they would live forever, however God proclaimed His creation good which by His standard would mean no death.

GC

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With number 3, I'd say the joke's on Yahweh because they still lived so long.

With the other way, it seems like the only reason they would die is because Yahweh kept them from eating the other special fruit afterwards. So they died due to the man in charge being angry. Not because eating the fruit caused them to die. I don't know if the snake knew this or not. It really doesn't give much detail on what he knew, or even why he did it within the context of jewish teachings.

Either way it seems to speak more of Yahweh than the snake/Satan.

God proclaimed His creation as good and by His standards would mean no death. God knew if they ate from the tree of life after they had disobeyed they would live forever in a state of sin, this would be nothing short of hell itself. The tree of life was the hope for everyone born after the fall.

GC

[là bạn điên]

Imagine. I am at the fairground and I am taking my niece up onto the helter skelter and she is too frightened to slide down. If I tell her its Ok , she won;t die I am ,by the standerds of the religious fruitcakes lying because she will one day actually die.

So we have a situtaion where the 'lies' they claim Satan says aren't actually lies but we know the bible is full of lies and since Christians say the bible is the word of god then its god that must be the liar.

[Tonus]

If God meant they would die the day they ate the fruit, then why is the translation always in the day, wouldn't it be more appropriate to say on the day.

The verse is translated a few ways depending on the Bible being used. Most say "in the day," some say "on the day," and some even say "if you eat from it, you will die that day." Other translations simply say "if you eat from it, you will die." It seems awkward to say "in the era that you eat from it, you will die." It makes the most sense that the writer of the story meant the version that doesn't specify a time frame: if you eat from the fruit, you will die. Then there is no need to figure out why they lived longer than a day.

[Godscreated]

Imagine. I am at the fairground and I am taking my niece up onto the helter skelter and she is too frightened to slide down. If I tell her its Ok , she won;t die I am ,by the standerds of the religious fruitcakes lying because she will one day actually die.

So we have a situtaion where the 'lies' they claim Satan says aren't actually lies but we know the bible is full of lies and since Christians say the bible is the word of god then its god that must be the liar.

Got any proof of these lies you claim to know?

GC

[Jacob(smooth)]

For a short while this was almost a civil conversation...