Question for Christians/Muslims etc.

[Darwinian]

And???

[Rhizomorph13]

We do not go to church to earn God's favor because God in being infinite can not be appeased and is not impressed with anything that I as a finite man can do.

But, if you fail to choose the right religion; that finite, insignificant action makes god say...

TO HELL WITH YOU!

Rhizo

[Chilpotlenathan]

We do not go to church to earn God's favor because God in being infinite can not be appeased and is not impressed with anything that I as a finite man can do.

But, if you fail to choose the right religion; that finite, insignificant action makes god say...

TO HELL WITH YOU!

Rhizo

Your point is well made, for the Bible itself says that there is no other way to Heaven except through Jesus. God does give us a choice, but we also know that He has given us all a conscience and we know what is right and wrong. We have all done wrong even when we have known it was wrong. God also says that He through the world He created has testified to us of who He is.

Since God is a just God, justice demands that He punish sin. An unjust God would allow wickedness, just as a bad court judge lets of crooks and condemns the innocent. Sin is a heavy thing. When we sin it is not just against each other but against God, an infinite God, therefore creating an infinite offense. That is why man in his own efforts cannot pay the price of what he owes. Only God Himself can pay the price. When Christ died on the cross He paid that price, He bore the wrath of God for us. To reject Him is to reject what He has done.

A price had to be paid, it is like a car. If one got in a wreck and destroyed the vehicle of someone else. There is damage done to that vehicle. Now he can be forgiven of the damage, but the damage is still there and a price must be paid by someone to fix it. Christ paid that price. Justice demands there to be consequences for our actions. If you reject the sacrifice Jesus made for you, then you are left on your own to pay what has been paid on your behalf.

[Darwinian]

But surely, if you are going to create a world from scratch, the scenario that you have just presented is perhaps a little childish to say the least. Why would this god create imperfect humans and then punish them for his own mistakes?

You must admit that the whole biblical story has about as much verisimilitude as any other mythical creation story.

[Eilonnwy]

Christ came and personally did for each of us. That is why we try not to do the very things for which he died to set us free of.

Christ died to forgive sins open the gates of heaven. That's a big part of the Christian mythology.

Heaven and Hell is a Christian invention, hell especially. Jews don't necessarily believe in it.

[Chilpotlenathan]

Your right things coming from nothing is hard to comprehend. But I submit to you that that door swings both ways. Were did everything then come from, do not the laws of thermodynamics say that matter is not created, but then again if it is not created then it must have always been. And if matter has always been then we would not exist now, for if it did not at one point have a beginning then also by the laws of thermo entropy would occur and all energy would have been lost.

Now how can matter be around infinitely and our scientist now have to find how that could have been for much of the big bang defies the laws of physics. These things are the what Stephen Hawking is trying to prove with his equation for all things.

Why would a perfect God create imperfect beings, well, He didn't. He did not create divine beings but He did create beings that were without sin. Were they imperfect because they made a wrong choice, no. They knew it was wrong and chose to rebel. Man in his desire to be more like God rebelled and created separation with God. Is it God's fault that He has given you freedom and you chose wrong, even after He told you it was wrong? No. Did God not know we would rebel? No, He knew, but even before He created us, He loved us and was willing to give Himself for us.

Again it is true there are many stories similar to the account of Bible. But my answer to you are that you can also find many counterfeits to the American dollar. Every man be the conviction of his heart tries to make a god into his own image and has perverted the image of the true God.

How does naturalism explain the natural mind? If we are just here by chance of random mutations, then our brains are little more than chemical reactions, and our rationality should therefore not be trusted because it is not of anything based upon logic but upon firings due to chemical reactions. I submit to you that man is rational and our rationality is beyond the natural order, in that it exists and is based on reality.

Even if you hate God or even the concept of Him, it still doesn't matter, He loves you and sent His Son to die for you. Christ died for the holiest of the saints to the wickedest of the sinners, for Mother Teresa to Adolf Hitler. Christ sacrifice was so effective that if you repent and believe on Him, He will forgive you of any sin, whether lying, hate, anger, stealing, cheating, lust, pornography, or even murder.

[Minimalist]

Christ sacrifice was so effective that if you repent and believe on Him, He will forgive you of any sin, whether lying, hate, anger, stealing, cheating, lust, pornography, or even murder.

What a preposterous line of shit to spout. You should be ashamed of yourself but, I see that you call yourself a xtian so that kind of rules that out.

Your god is as phony as all the other gods dreamed up by the minds of man. Your god isn't real because its yours. Had you been born in Kabul you'd be wrapping your ass in dynamite for the glory of allah, lad.

[Eilonnwy]

Your right things coming from nothing is hard to comprehend. But I submit to you that that door swings both ways. Were did everything then come from, do not the laws of thermodynamics say that matter is not created, but then again if it is not created then it must have always been. And if matter has always been then we would not exist now, for if it did not at one point have a beginning then also by the laws of thermo entropy would occur and all energy would have been lost.

Now how can matter be around infinitely and our scientist now have to find how that could have been for much of the big bang defies the laws of physics. These things are the what Stephen Hawking is trying to prove with his equation for all things.

I find this hilarious since I just read Padraic's post here. XD

[theVOID]

Your point is well made, for the Bible itself says that there is no other way to Heaven except through Jesus.

They all say something like that!

So, tell us, how do you know that your religion is the one true religion?

[tackattack]

The really really short and tired answer is because I haven't found a belief that I can justify other than Christianity.

Yes I would. If you proved that nothing happens when you die except ceasing I would still have morals and ethics, need for community, history, belief in other dimensions, science. I would still live in the now and feel the need to care for and nurture others. I would still want to make the world better, if not as intensely moreso.

How about if the entire religion (and the gods and beliefs associated) were disproved (to the point you accepted it)...?

Would you maintain the same morals and desire to make the world better?

to the point I acccepted it yes, without question. Can you be moral and good without God? Of course you can, why couldn't I. If "heaven" does exists though, I feel that certain steps need to take place to get in.Maybe heaven is just the spark that gives us self-actualization getting carried outside of the universe into my big blue ball of love and hell would just be staying here in this confineing space, however vast. I don't know but I'm making my best assertion based on what's true to me.

I'm not sure what it is with Christians. Maybe because they are so fired up to defend their position to atheists or so full of the holy spirit but they always seem to forget the niceties and to introduce themselves in the introduction thread as they were asked to do when they signed up.

We're a friendly lot here and we like people to say hello before they start debating. Small point perhaps but one worth noting.

Anyway, thanks for your response to my question. You say that Christ set us free. My question would be, free from what? Surely whatever situation that we find ourselves in that requires a character like Jesus was created by God in the first place.

Posted, my bad.your reference to "whatever situation" puzzles me. IMO. God did the First step in creating the Big Bang in my book. Whatever situations that have happened since are constrained by the laws of our known universe and created by cause and effect. Most currently the world we live in I think is mostly a construct of actions, thoughts and beliefs of the creaturesinhabiting this planet. We used our free will to question him and he's let us do all the questions and come up with our own answers.