Christianity almost impossible without indoctrination

[LastPoet]

Well, an atheist can kill, but you won't find an atheist that will kill, just because of silly entitlement towards a religious fantasy.

[ThomM]

Christians have all been brought up by religious parents and/or school indocrination. There are none that were brought up without any indocrination.

Simply not true.

Even as a non believer - I know that statement is not true

However - it far closer to being true - than the other way around.

For Example -= christianity is going extinct in the area where it started - ie - the middle east.

As the Pew Forum statistics show - 1 in 4 who were brought up christian among those born between 1981 and 200 no longer belong to any church

Statistics also show that the population of church going christians is aging rapidly - younger people are not joining - or are leaving - and - that xtianity is heading towards extinction in a number of major western countries. THere is a shortage of trained ministry in virtually ALL countries - and more churches are being closed in western countries than are being replaced.

Islam has the same problem - stats show that more than 16,000 are leaving Islam per month in Africa - and are not going to another religion.

Why?
Today - people are taught to ask for supporting proof of statements

However - when you ask Christians for proof of their god - they provide NONE - even after 2000 years - not a single piece of proof

There is not a single document that we have - from the supposed time of the christ that even mentions his name - much less ANY of the astounding things he supposedly did in one of the most well covered historic era - the golden age of rome. There is NO proof that ANY of the bible was written by someone who could have actually seen him. THe bible is certainly suspect as according to style analysis - virtually all the books had more than one author.

THe middle east is among the most well dug up sites of the world for ancient artifacts - but there remains NO proof that the Israelites even existed before about 1300BCE. THere is no proof that a million of them wandered through the Israeli desert - not even an indication.

When studied on a statistically significant basis in double blind studies - that have been published in peer reviewed scientific journals - there has been NO study published that show an effect of prayer - regardless of who you pray to. ALL of them show the results to be withing the margin of error for pure chance. Praying to the SUN will get you more warmth than praying to a god.

There was NO garden of eden - no 7 day creation - no great flood - no Battle of Jericho - No Nazareth at the supposed time of the christ - there are simply too many errors in the bible to overlook

However - the problem with the bible is far deeper than just being fairy tales - it is a horrific book - a book that advocates discrimination - and the Xtians LOVE to cherry pick their passages and ignore that the basic religious message of the bible is that WOMAN are second class citizens who must be subservient to men (1 Timothy 2) and be pregnant to be saved! Saved from what?

When Xtians tell you to ignore the Old Testament - they eliminate the need to be saved - since there is NO need for a messiah.

And of course - if you actually read the bible - you KNOW that the covenant of the messiah is NOT fullfilled by the christ - since that time was not in line with the things the messiah was supposed to do. SO - the xtians come up with a NEW testamant - but THAT implies that the GOD LIED about the first one. (IF that god is all knowing - it knew what would happen at the time of the first one - so promising them - and not delivering is LIE)

So - In order to IGNORE the obvious problems - errors - omissions - you need to be indoctrinated - or stupid!

[fr0d0]

2. Nice theology you have there. Don't tell me what I believe though thanks

So you don't endorse it? Don't worship the God then.

Or you think your God is incapable of sending your parents to Heaven. It's not omnipotent.

Or you think your God is omnipotent yet doesn't want to send your parents to Heaven. Don't worship the God then.

I certainly don't endorse it, no. I don't recognise it to be Christianity. I'm sorry that I can't discuss something with you that I know nothing about. If you'd care to discuss Christianity any time then I'm all yours

[FreeTony]

Again, it was those Christians I know, not all Christians.

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I certainly don't endorse it, no. I don't recognise it to be Christianity. I'm sorry that I can't discuss something with you that I know nothing about. If you'd care to discuss Christianity any time then I'm all yours

Your version of Christianity.

This is the reason the Chrisitians I am friends with don't believe in Hell. They wouldn't worship a God that would send people to Hell. They laughed when I asked whether they believed Hell exists.

They would also say their version of Christianity is correct.

[Whateverist]

As someone brought up a xtian (just not very effectively), the only way I was ever able to make sense of hell is as a subjective state. It would be a qualitatively poor state to be in, it would be instantaneous and, even if it felt like forever at the time, transitory.

[Chad32]

The bible mentions a place called Gehena sometimes, and people may say it's another word for hell. Except Gehena was just a valley in the middle east where they dropped people that died of disease or committed crimes. They kept a fire burning there to make sure the corpses were utterly destroyed. So the lake of fire where everything is utterly destroyed wasn't a spiritual place at all. This is one reason why some people don't believe in hell, though the general consensus seems to be that it exists.

[fr0d0]

Your version of Christianity.

This is the reason the Chrisitians I am friends with don't believe in Hell. They wouldn't worship a God that would send people to Hell. They laughed when I asked whether they believed Hell exists.

They would also say their version of Christianity is correct.

No, the widely accepted version of Christianity that comprises the mainstream Christian Church.

I agree with your friends on a basic level. But the question goes far deeper. You choose to "live in hell" all the time you choose death over life, or to do harmful stuff, as do I, and every other human. Is a kinda widely accepted fact, but one you choose to put in religious language so that you can shoot it down.

[Chad32]

Well hell seems to be getting better over time in the more developed places. I figure it will continue to do so, especially if we can keep religion from dragging it down.

[Ryantology]

... by mindlessly following the populist view... which at the moment is atheism

Poor little disadvantaged Christian martyrs, all 2.5 billion of you.

One of the most common fears I see Christians like fraudo express towards atheism is that, if given the chance, we'll treat them ad horribly as they have treated everybody else for 2,000 years (and still do today, whenever they can get away with it). This fear is fueled by the same conceit that produces arguments like "atheism is a religion" and "atheists just hate God": the amazing conceit that psychopathic and misanthropic Christian beliefs and thinking are default settings for humanity. Even if you reject the premise of that faith, you're still going to do certain things (from worshiping something to persecuting those who don't ) because Christians ike fraudo expect everyone else to be as backwards as they are.

[Chad32]

My favorite is when they say there's no restraint without god. Implying or even stating that without god they'd do all sorts of atrocities that they don't for fear of hell or not getting into heaven. It says more about them than us, really.