Man Made Global Warming

[Darwinian]

I, unlike many other it seems, am still very suspicious concerning the whole subject of man made global warming, and the following revelation only fuels my suspicions..

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/en...944035.ece

[Tiberius]

Everyone should be suspicious. It looks like skepticism has paid off in this case, and we might be looking at a new way of data sharing in science as a result.

[Eilonnwy]

It saddens me that scientists would skew data like that, but I think we need to remember that Global Warming itself is real. There is a legitimate debate about how much of Global Warming is man made and what kind of impact it will have, but I think the debate gets clouded by Global Warming deniers who insist there is no change or problem that needs to be investigated and addressed and have jumped on these emails as if there is proof that Global Warming is completely debunked.

[binny]

Well I'm no scientist, but you can't tell me that dumping all that pollution and carbon emissions into the atmosphere isn't having some effect on the earth's climate.
In 1983 I left my boyfriend at the time and took the bus to visit a friend of mine in Roswell, New Mexico (no I did not see any aliens). One stop to switch buses was in Los Angeles, California. I had never been there before. I was horrified when I went outside and looked around. The smog was unbelievable. It was a warm sunny day, but it looked overcast and not regular overcast, but weird brownish yellow overcast. It was never like that where I'm from. It isn't that bad now, but on warm windless days you can see the smog cover all around where it never existed before.

[leo-rcc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nnVQ2fROOg

[Eilonnwy]

I work just outside the edges of what's considered downtown Boston. In the summer time if I look out my window I can see grayish tinge to the sky where the skyscrapers are. It's gross. I'm srue it's not as bad as LA, but it's noticeable, especially on those hot clear days.

There is proof that these type of carbon emissions effect our health, at the very least. So when we look for cleaner fuel emissions, I don't think it's just about Global Warming but overall health of our planet. So yeah, there is an effect, even if it isn't specifically Global Warming, or the main cause. The whole issue is very complicated and multi-faceted, and many Global Warming deniers have an ideological (The world will end when God says so!) or financial (Drill, baby, Drill) reason for being dead set against researching it, or even admitting the possibility that man could have even the tiniest contribution to Global Warming.

[Pippy]

Yes, I agree with both of you. That there is an absolute pollution problem, and there is quite likely a climate change problem. I don't know where man-made global warming fits into it, but the argument has been co-opted badly.

Have you guys seen the two videos of people chasing Al Gore out of book signings? It happened last week in Colorado, and recently in Chicago. People are more than a little pissed about the Climategate Emails, and the way the Gore camp has been acting. It seems that none of the carbon tax ideas will do anything but create a worse "global marketplace" catastrophe of putting all manufacturing jobs in the places where they are allowed to do the most damage. We can already see what that kind of thinking and economic plan has gotten Mexico City. And that these carbon taxes might make Gore and his cronies very, very, very rich. For people that want to make real changes, and care about the ecosystems, this is beyond blasphemy from the (bullshit) leader of the movement.

Let us not forget that Al Gore conveniently left out what would be the most inconvenient truths about solutions to the pollution problems. As soon as he said "Shorter showers and fancy new light bulbs" I knew he was talking out of his ass. We the people use about 10-15% of the water, and corporations like agribuisiness use the rest. So if the corporations would use their share more wisely and efficiently, that would make for real change, whereas we can all take 5 second showers and the impact is negligible.

And then he started saying "Government legislation" and that is also bullshit. How can taxing carbon output (like when you breathe out) actually be a reasonable solution. It's petty and foolish and about as rife with possibility of misuse as possible. But let us remember, this is the same Al Gore they got to lose to GWB in a clear piece of electoral fraud, and then just fade away and not make too much stink.

I am sure that I will seethe when I read his quasi-spiritual take on it in the new book, as I am a believer in nature-faiths and the sacred feminine (both things I am gonna assume he will likely misuse horribly). I am sure to have a lot to say when I get around to stealing a copy.

But see the trick? The argument about man's impact on the planet and the necessity to maintain our natural world for our own survival is undeniable, but now what are your options? I support Cap and Trade, we need solutions, no matter how retarded. Or I support the full-out denial of climate change, all those animals are fine. But those are both wrong.

I love how the modern world frames these facts and opinions and choices. I see it so clearly, as the trap it is.

But yes, global warming, or man-made climate and ecospherical impact is very real, and Al Gore didn't make it so, not does the climategate hacks disprove it. Red herring! See it, a red herring!

Same old tricks.

-Pip

[Eilonnwy]

Yeah, I agree. It gets tricky because global warming and man-made global warming are seperate yet intertwined issues.

I think Al Gore is a bit of an extremist on the other end of the Global Warming spectrum.

[BruceMegan]

ClimateGate was a clear example of 'cognitive dissonance' among scientists. Something like this can only be avoided if the research is open. However, I do believe that the extremity of the climate debate is partly to blame for this (aside from the scientists' own stupidity and maliciousness).

Although I am always sceptic on the topic of Climate Change (like any other topic), I would like to ask Climage Change deniers this:

Would you really want to bet the future of the world on any grain of uncertainty?

[Tiberius]

Would you really want to bet the future of the world on any grain of uncertainty?

It's not the future of the world that is at stake here. The world is fine, the people are fucked.