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RE: The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave
April 12, 2014 at 12:38 am
(April 11, 2014 at 9:50 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I have been sharing the Scriptures and trying to answer these questions. You can respectfully disagree with me but brushing me off as unintelligent is unintelligent.
Isn't it exceedingly unintelligent to believe in an
ALLL KNOWING,
ALLLL POWERFUL
inVISible being who is everywherrrrrrre
who created the WHOLE universe
who is perrrrfect in EVERY way
who was never born and will never die
who watches over all 7 BILLION people 24 hours a day, even when they're sitting on the toilet, picking their nose, or having strange sex.
And who lives in another dimension called heaven?
There is an ALLLL-knowing, ALLLL-powerful, inVISible being who is everywhere, who created the WHOLE universe, who lives in another dimension called heaven, who is perfect in every way, who was never born and will never die, and who watches you every minute of every day (even when you're squeezing one out on the toilet). There are also unicorns, leprechauns, Santa Claus, an Easter Bunny, and a giant purple people eater.
RE: The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave
April 12, 2014 at 1:19 am
(April 11, 2014 at 9:30 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:
(April 11, 2014 at 7:54 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Yeah, that would mean Mary was an unwed mother, even if she eventually married her child's father. If I'm not mistaken, that still qualifies as a "bastard child" but those more versed on archaic sexual mores might be able to educate me.
I'm sorry but I don't follow your line of reasoning. God the Father is the Father of Jesus. Mary is the mother of the man Jesus. Joseph was married to Mary. Joseph helped raise Him.
So, it's good that you can admit that jebus was a bastard.
Dictionary.com | bastard | bas·tard | noun
1. a person born of unmarried parents*; an illegitimate child.
How can your "savior" save anybody or do anything in the name of his "father" if he can't, according to the laws set forth by his own gawd/father, even worship his own gawd/father?!?
Deuteronomy 23:2 "A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation"
On top of that, according to christer tradition, the sin of being a bastard sticks to the child just as much as it does to the parents. So, not only could he not worship gawd, he wasn't even without sin as the christer church would have us believe.
I'd love to hear an explanation to this that doesn't rely on special pleading to get it done. Personally, I don't think you can do it.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
Quote:The Book of Mormon witnesses are a group of contemporaries of Joseph Smith, Jr. who said they saw the golden plates from which Smith said he translated the Book of Mormon. The most significant witnesses are the Three Witnesses and the Eight Witnesses, all of whom allowed their names to be used on two separate statements included with the Book of Mormon.
The Three Witnesses were a group of three early leaders of the Latter Day Saint movement who wrote in a statement of 1830 that an angel had shown them the golden plates from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon and that they had heard God's voice testifying that the book had been translated by the power of God.
Unlike the Three Witnesses, the Eight testified that they both saw and handled the plates. Another difference is that the Eight testified they were shown the plates by Joseph Smith, Jr. rather than by an angel as had the Three Witnesses. Christian Whitmer died in 1835 and his brother Peter Whitmer, Jr. died the following year. In 1838, the surviving Whitmers became estranged from Joseph Smith Jr. during a leadership struggle in Far West, Missouri, and all were excommunicated with other dissenters,[5] never to rejoin Smith's church. None of the Eight Witnesses is known to have denied his testimony to the authenticity of Book of Mormon or the golden plates.
Mary Musselman Whitmer (1778–1856), the mother of five Witnesses who took care of the household in Fayette, New York, where much of the translation occurred, said that an angel showed her the plates and thus made her more content to continue her daily labors.[6] Joseph Smith made no mention of this visitation in his journal.
I know you're going to say that Satan deceived Muhammad, Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith's witnesses but that's not the point. You've given no indication that you're a Mormon which means that you've rejected two Holy Books even though umpteen people believe that these books are the truth.
What denomination are you, by the way? Calling yourself a Christian is very vague when there are around 40,000 Christian denominations teaching different things.
PS: Not all Christian groups believe in the trinity.
Quote:Nontrinitarianism (or antitrinitarianism) refers to monotheistic belief systems, primarily within Christianity, which reject the mainstream Christian doctrine of the Trinity, namely, the teaching that God is three distinct hypostases or persons who are co-eternal, co-equal, and indivisibly united in one being or ousia.
Nontrinitarian views differ widely on the nature of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Various nontrinitarian views, such as Adoptionism, Monarchianism, and Subordinationism existed prior to the formal definition of the Trinity doctrine in A.D. 325, 360, and 431, at the Councils of Nicaea, Constantinople, and Ephesus.[11] Nontrinitarianism was later renewed in the Gnosticism of the Cathars in the 11th through 13th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment of the 18th century, and in some groups arising during the Second Great Awakening of the 19th century.
Modern nontrinitarian Christian groups or denominations include Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Dawn Bible Students, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God, International and the United Church of God.
It looks like Nontrinitariasm was the earlier form of Christianity.
I found an interesting article written by a Christian.
If the triune nature of God is so important, why didn't Jesus make it 100% clear when preaching to the multitudes? It would have prevented a lot of confusion.
RE: The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave
April 12, 2014 at 3:42 am
(April 11, 2014 at 7:41 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote:
(April 11, 2014 at 10:57 am)Revelation777 Wrote: As far as imminence goes, I can't answer it better than the Bible. 2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
Wow. I point out that your prom date is wayyyy fucking late picking you up and you choose to respond by answering the idea of imminence with a long quote about doubters. You completely miss the point that jebus clearly expected some of the people he was addressing to NOT FUCKING DIE before he returned. Oops.
Please explain this. No dodging, ducking or evading.
(April 11, 2014 at 10:57 am)Revelation777 Wrote: Both God and man...The child that was conceived in her was of the Holy Spirit.
What does this shit even mean? are you claiming that gawd fathered him? If that is the case, how can he "enter into the congregation of the lord" (you know, worship gawd) if he's born to unwed parents?
Are you claiming Joseph fathered him? That would make him no more holy than you.
Or, are you claiming the holy spirit (whatever the fuck that is) fathered him? See above about the congregation and all that.
Please try to actually answer the questions asked.
Well, according to the fairy tale technically Jesus did return within the lifetimes of his listeners. He said that he would return, he was crucified and died, and then resurrected a couple of days later. After that he spent 40 days hanging out with his buddies and going on fishing trips. And then he caught the express bus to heaven.
What he hasn't done is to make a grand entrance floating down from the sky. Nutty John Hagee has high hopes for that within the year because he's claiming that the four blood moons on four Jewish religious days is a sign that something big is going to happen in 2015. We can only hope that the clown will STFU when nothing happens. Of course if he croaks during one of those blood moons some fool will claim that he was "raptured."
RE: The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave
April 12, 2014 at 4:23 pm
(April 11, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: It's like arguing with the talking clock.
There is a major difference though. At least with the speaking clock you get useful, coherent information.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
RE: The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave
April 13, 2014 at 3:16 pm (This post was last modified: April 13, 2014 at 3:18 pm by Revelation777.)
(April 12, 2014 at 12:38 am)Jiggerj Wrote:
(April 11, 2014 at 9:50 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I have been sharing the Scriptures and trying to answer these questions. You can respectfully disagree with me but brushing me off as unintelligent is unintelligent.
Isn't it exceedingly unintelligent to believe in an
ALLL KNOWING,
ALLLL POWERFUL
inVISible being who is everywherrrrrrre
who created the WHOLE universe
who is perrrrfect in EVERY way
who was never born and will never die
who watches over all 7 BILLION people 24 hours a day, even when they're sitting on the toilet, picking their nose, or having strange sex.
And who lives in another dimension called heaven?
Yes, what's your point?
(April 11, 2014 at 9:43 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:
(April 11, 2014 at 9:30 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Joseph was married to Mary.
Nope.
Quote:Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mary and Joseph had kids together after Christ's birth.
Quote:The Book of Mormon witnesses are a group of contemporaries of Joseph Smith, Jr. who said they saw the golden plates from which Smith said he translated the Book of Mormon. The most significant witnesses are the Three Witnesses and the Eight Witnesses, all of whom allowed their names to be used on two separate statements included with the Book of Mormon.
The Three Witnesses were a group of three early leaders of the Latter Day Saint movement who wrote in a statement of 1830 that an angel had shown them the golden plates from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon and that they had heard God's voice testifying that the book had been translated by the power of God.
Unlike the Three Witnesses, the Eight testified that they both saw and handled the plates. Another difference is that the Eight testified they were shown the plates by Joseph Smith, Jr. rather than by an angel as had the Three Witnesses. Christian Whitmer died in 1835 and his brother Peter Whitmer, Jr. died the following year. In 1838, the surviving Whitmers became estranged from Joseph Smith Jr. during a leadership struggle in Far West, Missouri, and all were excommunicated with other dissenters,[5] never to rejoin Smith's church. None of the Eight Witnesses is known to have denied his testimony to the authenticity of Book of Mormon or the golden plates.
Mary Musselman Whitmer (1778–1856), the mother of five Witnesses who took care of the household in Fayette, New York, where much of the translation occurred, said that an angel showed her the plates and thus made her more content to continue her daily labors.[6] Joseph Smith made no mention of this visitation in his journal.
I know you're going to say that Satan deceived Muhammad, Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith's witnesses but that's not the point. You've given no indication that you're a Mormon which means that you've rejected two Holy Books even though umpteen people believe that these books are the truth.
What denomination are you, by the way? Calling yourself a Christian is very vague when there are around 40,000 Christian denominations teaching different things.
PS: Not all Christian groups believe in the trinity.
Quote:Nontrinitarianism (or antitrinitarianism) refers to monotheistic belief systems, primarily within Christianity, which reject the mainstream Christian doctrine of the Trinity, namely, the teaching that God is three distinct hypostases or persons who are co-eternal, co-equal, and indivisibly united in one being or ousia.
Nontrinitarian views differ widely on the nature of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Various nontrinitarian views, such as Adoptionism, Monarchianism, and Subordinationism existed prior to the formal definition of the Trinity doctrine in A.D. 325, 360, and 431, at the Councils of Nicaea, Constantinople, and Ephesus.[11] Nontrinitarianism was later renewed in the Gnosticism of the Cathars in the 11th through 13th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment of the 18th century, and in some groups arising during the Second Great Awakening of the 19th century.
Modern nontrinitarian Christian groups or denominations include Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Dawn Bible Students, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God, International and the United Church of God.
It looks like Nontrinitariasm was the earlier form of Christianity.
I found an interesting article written by a Christian.
If the triune nature of God is so important, why didn't Jesus make it 100% clear when preaching to the multitudes? It would have prevented a lot of confusion.
The Bible is divinely inspired, reveals the truth of Christ as the Son of God, and it's message is consistent through out, and its prophesies come true.
I know you're going to say that Satan deceived Muhammad, Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith's witnesses but that's not the point. You've given no indication that you're a Mormon which means that you've rejected two Holy Books even though umpteen people believe that these books are the truth.
What denomination are you, by the way? Calling yourself a Christian is very vague when there are around 40,000 Christian denominations teaching different things.
PS: Not all Christian groups believe in the trinity.
If the triune nature of God is so important, why didn't Jesus make it 100% clear when preaching to the multitudes? It would have prevented a lot of confusion.
The Bible is divinely inspired, reveals the truth of Christ as the Son of God, and it's message is consistent through out, and its prophesies come true.
It's written by men, is contradictory throughout, and vague prophecies can be interpreted in a wide variety of ways.
