God - a study in pointlessness.

[Lek]

Because God made us each individually and cares for us as individuals.

Yet you believe that he provided us with a user guide that is so poorly-written that after thousands of years people are more divided than ever as to how to interpret it, but they all seem to agree that if you don't do as god commands, he will punish you for all of eternity. That simply doesn't jibe with the idea of someone who cares about us as individuals. You wouldn't ever even think of treating another person the way god threatens to treat humanity, yet you consider him to be the hallmark of loving kindness. It really is bizarre.

Our interpretation of scripture is worlds apart. For one thing the bible is not a user guide. I don't consult the bible to see if I should go to a ball game or not. It's also one of the most acclaimed works of literature of all time. Although the message of salvation is simple, most of it can be difficult to interpret. Obviously, God wanted us to have to work to grasp the meaning of much of it. In the course of our search, we arrive at different conclusions on points of doctrine, but still, the message of salvation comes through clearly - faith in Christ. It's a free gift from a loving God given to us through one individual who is Jesus Christ. Hell is simply being in a place without the influence of God, which we have freely chosen. Do you want him to force you to be with him?

[Ryantology]

So you're saying that people are not the cause of any suffering in the world if, indeed, there is a God? And if there is a God, we have no responsibility to help others?

People are definitely a cause of suffering. And God is ultimately responsible for all of it, because he has the ability to stop every single bad thing that anybody ever does (not to mention, the multitude of bad things people don't do). Us having free will does not excuse him of his neglect and willful malice. If God isn't going to stop any of these things, and God actually makes things worse with random disasters on top of human-generated misery he refuses to stop, there's no point in having a god around.

[Silver]

It's also one of the most acclaimed works of literature of all time.

That is because most people consider it so without having read any of the rubbish contained within it. They are merely basing their erroneous opinion on what others have said about it. After all, if other theistitards are calling it great, it must be! False. The bible is the worst piece of fiction ever written.

[Lek]

It's also one of the most acclaimed works of literature of all time.

That is because most people consider it so without having read any of the rubbish contained within it. They are merely basing their erroneous opinion on what others have said about it. After all, if other theistitards are calling it great, it must be! False. The bible is the worst piece of fiction ever written.

Depends on what your idea of good literature is I guess.

[Ryantology]

It's easy to be an acclaimed piece of literature when criticizing it can lead to being set on fire or having everybody you know slaughtered or losing your livelihood or being denied equal rights.

[Subhan Ahmad]

Can anyone tell me why, if there is a God, he created the world in the first place. It would be a bit self-indulgent of him, surely. Wouldn't he have to be some sort of a power crazed Voyeur to do any of this in the first place? Why would a just and loving God create a world and then watch its creatures suffering for millennium after millennium.

What the hell was God thinking? I have yet to hear a convincing argument advanced about this. Perhaps non atheists could take a shot at answering this question

Bro, I will give you a muslim perspective as far as I know. I would suggest that you take things at face value for now to get the whole picture.

Earth is made for Human beings and Human Beings are made to worship God. You will see perfection and order in this world. The day and night, seasons, water cycle, universe. You will see the order and the beauty of creation at its full glory. From atoms to heavenly bodies, you will see a pattern and order. This order is maintained by God and Billions of His angels.

Humans are one of the greatest creation among the creations of God. Humans are sent to this earth with authority to some extent, free will and the only creature with a sense of purpose. Rest of the animals and angels just do what they are told and taught to do. You know very well that our decisions even change the face of earth. We human beings are the apparent rulers of the Earth.

Brother you know very well that where there is authority, there are two things:
1) Responsibility
2) Accountability

Responsibility

The responsibility of human beings is to bring the word of God and same order, organization and harmony among human beings on earth like the rest of the world and universe. Now what and how to bring the order? For that God sent His knowledge and teachings through several prophets from Adam to final Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon them). The final teachings for the all the generations upto the end of earth is in the form of Quran and the life style of Prophet Muhmmad (Peace be Upon him) known as sunnah. If I try to simplify, Quran and sunnah teaches how to live and how not to live (dos and don'ts) as individuals, families, societies, and nations and how to develop a healthy relationship with God.

Accountability
These dos and donts define the good and evil. The good and evil are not equal. To explain this, I will put some Quranic verses infront first:

"The good deed and the evil deed cannot be equal. Repel (the evil) with one which is better (i.e. Allah ordered the faithful believers to be patient at the time of anger, and to excuse those who treat them badly), then verily! he, between whom and you there was enmity, (will become) as though he was a close friend." (41:34)

"Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Not equal are Al-Khabith (all that is evil and bad as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.) and At-Taiyib (all that is good as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), even though the abundance of Al-Khabith (evil) may please you." So fear Allah much [(abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)], O men of understanding in order that you may be successful." (5:100)

This world is a trial and each person is given one life so he or she can prove his or her worth. You choose yourself whether you lead your life by adopting good ways/actions or by evil ways/actions.
You have given the authority to become whatever you can. You can either choose to become like Hitler or like Gandhi. God gives you time, do whatever you like God won't pass judgement on you. But once your time is up, then your put to death. No one will be given a second life as a second chance.

First most of the sufferings are brought by man himself. We get into evil ways, forget God and then we suffer, we blame God.

Anyways, all of this is in this life is a trail. God put man in different scenarios to turn him inside out. Whatever evil and good you hide inside yourself, will gets exposed so on the day of judgment no one has an excuse. You will become a witness of yourself. That is why God says in Quran again and again that good and bad can and will NEVER EVER be equal. And He promises again and again that He will seperate good from bad or evil on the day of judgement. Whatever we are doing either publicly or privately is being thoroughly recorded. So every individual will be handed the record of all his or her good an bad deeds they did in their lives so they be witness of themselves that whether they fall in the category of good people (if excess of good deeds) or the evil people (excess of evil deed). For the faithful, righteous and patient will be eternal heaven which is better than this world to unimaginable level and for the unfaithful, and wrongdoers is eternal hell. This is what I believe is justice.

Thats all I can explain right now. Any confusions or questions? let me know.

[pocaracas]

For the faithful, righteous and patient will be eternal heaven which is better than this world to unimaginable level and for the unfaithful, and wrongdoers is eternal hell. This is what I believe is justice.

What doesn't make sense to me is: Why is faith a requirement?
Why the need for a book?... specially a book that comes after other similar books already exist...

Alas... the requirement of faith is what takes all credibility away from any mythology.
It makes it sound like the book was written by men, for men, to help control men's behaviors. Sure it does provide some helpful guidelines, but then... way too much crap is made up to uphold the illusion of the exterior uber-master of the world... the god.
And, nowadays, there's no real need for such illusory baggage. People, at least in the developed world, can behave themselves without the belief in a cosmic big-brother/judge. Secular law works well enough.... and, dare I say it... better than theocracy-law.

[Chas]

Okay, that's why god should care. Perhaps now, you can explain why he obviously doesn't, when so many of his custom-made individual creations die in such stupid and terrifying ways, many of them as defenseless infants and children (and earlier).

As I said many times already, when man sinned it changed the way of the world and we all suffer the consequences. He showed he cared by allowing us to live eternally in happiness. Suffering must be a necessary part of life on earth because he came and also suffered an agonizing death. People blame God for all the suffering on earth while, at the same time, they themselves cause suffering to come upon helpless infants and others. Unfortunately, suffering is in the world. We have a responsibility to try to alleviate suffering when we can, but it doesn't last forever. We have eternity to look forward to. That's my take on it.

You know you just make this shit up, don't you?

[Ryantology]

As I said many times already, when man sinned it changed the way of the world and we all suffer the consequences.

I forgot to address this particular bit of nonsense earlier.

No. The world didn't change because of two peoples' actions. The very balance of nature did not rest upon the behavior of two individuals. God deliberately, intentionally, and with malice made the decision to change the world to be this way. He didn't have to. He could have just forgiven them, ask them not to do it again, especially since they had never done anything wrong until that point. He could have done that. Instead, he decided to punish all of humanity for the single, harmless thing two individuals did.

So, no. It is still completely God's fault and he's a huge asshole. Well, actually, he's not. He's not real.

You, however, are a huge asshole because you believe it's real and you're justifying that sort of behavior.

[Tonus]

Our interpretation of scripture is worlds apart.

Well, yeah, that's the point. There are many, many interpretations of scripture; we see many of them here in regards to many different points. And no, the message of salvation is NOT simple. There are numerous interpretations of how to be saved and how to stay saved, as well as contradictory interpretations of whether or not it's possible to be damned once you are saved, or saved once you are damned, and so on.

The most important book ever written, a book you claim is "one of the most acclaimed works of literature of all time," a key component to helping people find god and salvation... and it's written so badly that pretty much every bit of it can --AND IS-- interpreted multiple ways by many people, at least some of who believe that their way is the absolute only way to be saved. THAT is what you consider the legacy of a being of unimaginable intellect and wisdom.

When it comes to determining what makes a competent god, you set your standards surprisingly low.