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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 3:31 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 3:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I know that it wasn't your god. I can tell you this much and remain a perfectly reasonable person (and I;m willing to demonstrate that anytime you like..it;ll take us all of 30 seconds of active participation)...even though I don't know the answer to the question itself...or even whether or not the question makes sense.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 3:33 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 3:10 pm)robvalue Wrote: Oh, and no, I'm not saying supernatural isn't it. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying there's absolutely no reason to think you are right.
Gotcha.
That makes more sense. I thought yall were 100% certain there was no God. I can understand now. Thanks.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 3:34 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 3:35 pm by Longhorn.)
(June 21, 2015 at 3:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well you can correct me if I'm wrong but you don't seem to believe that a supernatural force "probably doesn't exist." You seem to believe that it definitely doesn't exist. So you have ruled out that possibility as the origin of everything. Completely ruling it out as an option is not just a simple "I have no idea how things happened." You have enough of an idea to at least know it wasn't that.
No, CL. I accept that it is possible there is a creator, because I don't fucking know. I accept anything as possible. But I can rule things as improbable.
We don't have evidence of disembodied minds. A creator cannot be immune to infinite regress. Thus I say, it most probably was not a creator. But I don't know how it happened. I don't know it didn't happen like you say it did. All I'm saying is, I doubt that it is. It's an opinion on your particular theory, not the thing you have a theory for.
(June 21, 2015 at 3:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: ...And that is your opinion. Maybe you're wrong, and maybe you're right. Obviously, my opinion is contradictory to yours, and that's fine. At least I am just telling you what I believe, I'm not sitting here bashing you over the head in every post telling you that you're wrong, like you're doing to me. (which is fine, btw, I'm just saying)
Um. No I'm not. Point me, quote to me the exact post where I said 'you're wrong'. I'm not bashing you.
The reason you feel that I do is because I don't find your god plausible. And your god is really just you. That's why he agrees with everything you think and knows how you feel. Because it's just you. So when I criticize your god, you feel like I'm criticizing you. It's not true. But that's why you get all defensive.
Quote:What is that term?
It means that your creator requires a cause too. Who designed the designer?
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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 3:35 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 3:36 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 21, 2015 at 3:25 pm)robvalue Wrote: By the way, I'm happy to be corrected on any of the logic I have stated if you think I'm wrong. I'm always happy to learn if I've made a mistake.
Saying your argument is invalid isn't the same as saying your conclusions are untrue.
I appreciate your honesty and humility. 
(June 21, 2015 at 3:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: People are telling you you're wrong when you've made clear and demonstrable mistakes. Perhaps you should be appreciative, rather than pissy? Did you -not- want to hear this, or subject these opinions of yours to others scrutiny...when you decided to join a thread about arguments for god...and then share them?
Rest assured, Rhythm, I am not pissy. 
As I have stated before, I am appreciative and humbled that so many of you are taking the time to discuss with me.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 4:41 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 2:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 8:55 am)Stimbo Wrote: There is a fundamental difference, though. "I don’t know and neither do you; let's investigate" will always trump "I know and neither do you; therefore God" every time.
Neither of us has concrete proof.
But I believe there is a supernatural element involved,
and you believe things just came from nothing, or have always been.
We each believe something without proof of it.
When have I ever said either of those things? Do I go around telling you what you believe?
Knock that strawman shit off. It's incredibly rude.
I don't care what you believe; what you can demonstrate to be true is what counts. And the only one talking about concrete proof here is you. All the evidence so far obtained - from the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation to the Hubble shift - points towards a naturalistic origin. If there was a supernatural element involved, there is no way to discern it using the evidence at hand. Not honestly, anyway.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 4:43 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 4:41 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 2:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Neither of us has concrete proof.
But I believe there is a supernatural element involved,
and you believe things just came from nothing, or have always been.
We each believe something without proof of it.
When have I ever said either of those things? Do I go around telling you what you believe?
Knock that strawman shit off. It's incredibly rude.
Wow, I'm really sorry! I did not mean to be rude. 
I did not know there were other options available that you guys considered. My apologies.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 4:45 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 3:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 3:05 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: There is nothing beyond the laws of nature because nature is everything. Everything that is a part of the natural world is natural. Supernatural means not a part of the natural world, which means nonexistent.
...And that is your opinion. Maybe you're wrong, and maybe you're right. Obviously, my opinion is contradictory to yours, and that's fine.
Can you think of a method to discern which of those 'opinions' might be closer to representing reality?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 4:47 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 4:48 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That's the nature of not knowing something....you don't know....what you don't know. Could be a billion other alternatives. Might only be two (or just one), neither of which any human being has ever come across. We might -all- be arguing for factually incorrect positions, "pre-big bang"- whatever that means, if it means anything at all.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 4:47 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Wow, I'm really sorry! I did not mean to be rude.
I did not know there were other options available that you guys considered. My apologies.
Think of it as going to someone's house and telling them your opinion of what their dress sense says of their character.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Q about arguments for God's existence.
June 21, 2015 at 4:50 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 4:47 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Wow, I'm really sorry! I did not mean to be rude.
I did not know there were other options available that you guys considered. My apologies.
Think of it as going to someone's house and telling them your opinion of what their dress sense says of their character.
Oh I agree completely. Just didn't realize I was doing it until Neim pointed it out earlier. I'm sorry.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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