Q about arguments for God's existence.

[The Grand Nudger]

Nope, can't have that inch. It wasn't until 1563 that marriage was in any way a "christian thing". The manner in which they made it a "christian thing" - was by law. No one was leaning on angels to enforce the law, no one expected the almighty to be present at the reception. Marriage, as we understand it, has always been secular. To take your tack, churches shouldn't be able to perform marriages - but I'll allow you folks to have civil unions.



(The concept of marriage, insomuch as we have info on it, predates christianity by a hefty margin. We've been wedding ourselves to each other for as long as we've been writing things down. As always, these fuckers are invading someone else's territory and claiming it for their own. Bitching and moaning about other people redefining the shit they redefined.)

[Angrboda]

Maybe it's a false impression, and it's certainly not uniform, but there appear to be some "hot spots" of commonality among atheists. Not that all share them, but that if a person is an atheist, there is a higher chance of them also having certain traits or interests. Knowledge of religion, for example. A vocal atheist (yes, I'm shifting the target) is more likely to be knowledgeable about religion than either a religious person or someone who identifies as unaffiliated. They're more likely to value science and sound reasoning. Perhaps, more likely to identify as liberal than conservative. Maybe this is a false impression, but I would lean toward believing that atheists, as a group, differ significantly from average on one or more traits or whatever. It may just be a side effect of my hanging out with a certain segment of the atheist population, but my hunch is that the similarities among atheists extend beyond just their views on the existence of gods. Maybe I'm off base, but I think Lek has a point. It's just that the commonalities are not well defined, and, not viewed as necessary parts of the definition of atheist.

Or maybe I'm completely off the wall.

[Jenny A]

Maybe it's a false impression, and it's certainly not uniform, but there appear to be some "hot spots" of commonality among atheists. Not that all share them, but that if a person is an atheist, there is a higher chance of them also having certain traits or interests. Knowledge of religion, for example. A vocal atheist (yes, I'm shifting the target) is more likely to be knowledgeable about religion than either a religious person or someone who identifies as unaffiliated. They're more likely to value science and sound reasoning.

I have that impression too---particularly of atheists who were raised within a religious family. I think it's partly a self defense mechanism. I know it is in my case.

Perhaps, more likely to identify as liberal than conservative.

About social issues like victimless crimes, homosexuality, etc., it's been my experience the atheists are more liberal. I think that may have to do with how many of these things are determined to be unnatural or sinful by religious teachings rather than by reason.

This forum seems rather left in it's economic politics too, but that perception may have to do with my nationality and the number of Europeans we have here. If your comparison is U.S. politics, than all you have to do is add a few Europeans to any forum and it begins to look left leaning economically.

[M]y hunch is that the similarities among atheists extend beyond just their views on the existence of gods. Maybe I'm off base, but I think Lek has a point. It's just that the commonalities are not well defined, and, not viewed as necessary parts of the definition of atheist.

Or maybe I'm completely off the wall.

No not off the wall. There's a reason that the percentages of atheists in the sciences, for example, are so much higher than in the general population. It's just that reason, liberalness, etc. aren't conditions for joining the club.

And there are some glaring exceptions. Would you consider Ayn Rand's Objectivism liberal?

[Whateverist]

This forum is full of people who identify themselves as atheists maybe more than anything else. Their comments are highly influenced by their atheist orientation and they make decisions all the time that are influenced by that orientation. If you're "neutral" on the existence of God, why do you hang out on forums and ridicule theists among yourselves and in discussions with them? Stating that all religion should be wiped out doesn't sound neutral to me. I really see an agenda in many atheists to rid the world of all religions, which is motivated by their atheist persuasion.

When I first saw these traits here I was puzzled. Of course they are far from universal but they aren't hard to find. Nonetheless, none of this is essential to atheism as such. When these behaviors occur, I assume they flow from the aggravation many go through in breaking away from families and communities whose dedication to maintaining loyalty is greater than their regard for the individual.

Personally I think the only way beyond the worst aspects of religion is through better theology. Snuffing out religion by rational arguement has as much chance of succeeding as flattening the waves on the ocean with a frying pan.

[Jenny A]

This forum is full of people who identify themselves as atheists maybe more than anything else. Their comments are highly influenced by their atheist orientation and they make decisions all the time that are influenced by that orientation. If you're "neutral" on the existence of God, why do you hang out on forums and ridicule theists among yourselves and in discussions with them? Stating that all religion should be wiped out doesn't sound neutral to me. I really see an agenda in many atheists to rid the world of all religions, which is motivated by their atheist persuasion.

When I first saw these traits here I was puzzled. Of course they are far from universal but they aren't hard to find. Nonetheless, none of this is essential to atheism as such. When these behaviors occur, I assume they flow from the aggravation many go through in breaking away from families and communities whose dedication to maintaining loyalty is greater than their regard for the individual.

Personally I think the only way beyond the worst aspects of religion is through better theology. Snuffing out religion by rational arguement has as much chance of succeeding as flattening the waves on the ocean with a frying pan.

Thank you. That's pretty much how I feel about it.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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[
You fucking christers are soooooo threatened by the idea of two people who love each other committing to their partners that the rest of us can only stand in stupefied amazement of your ignorance and stupidity.

Please, tell me, how, exactly, would it affect your marriage to your wife if my daughter marries another woman?

Or, better yet, go fuck yourself with a cactus.

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I'm talking about government controlling the definition of marriage. When did I say I'm against two people committing themselves to each other? I don't believe homosexual relations are moral, but at the same time, I have no right to control other people's lives and to not love them. I think a lot of things people do are immoral. The reason I'm okay with civil unions is because I think it's an issue of equality under the law. Civil unions would give gays access to the same rights and privileges under the law as anyone else without redefining an institution that is sacred to many people. I think government should stay out of marriage. We should all have just civil unions as far as the law is concerned. I don't need the government to tell me I'm married.

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No? Do married couples get taxed in the same way as non-married couples in your country?

No.

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[alexwenzel]

I can't agree with that. This forum is full of people who identify themselves as atheists maybe more than anything else. Their comments are highly influenced by their atheist orientation and they make decisions all the time that are influenced by that orientation. If you're "neutral" on the existence of God, why do you hang out on forums and ridicule theists among yourselves and in discussions with them? Stating that all religion should be wiped out doesn't sound neutral to me. I really see an agenda in many atheists to rid the world of all religions, which is motivated by their atheist persuasion.

I've never met a person who defined themselves as an atheist more than anything else. But atheism is the purpose of this forum. It is why we are here, to get away from the assumption of god. You came here and you are welcome to be here. But don't expect to speak about god unchallenged.

Do you talk about god much in church? Would you suffer an atheist to preach a sermon about skepticism one Sunday or teach an adult Sunday school class in atheism? Would the congregation nod politely and say ah just another point of view? I think not. I'm not neutral on the issue of god. Why should I be? There's no evidence of him, and so much harm is done by believing in him. No not all believers do bad things, but many of them who wouldn't do bad things in the name of god.

But I wouldn't outlaw religion. You're free to believe what you want. I wouldn't try to take that right from you. But yes I get tired of nodding politely when my sister-in-law say "don't you think it's the end times." And I'm really tired of attending school board meetings just to see the evolution is not only legal to teach, but is taught. (My best ally in that fight is Christian, but the opposition is all fundies and Mormons.) This is the place I get to let my hair down and not be overly polite about the ludicrous.

Ya, what I see here is a bunch of people atheists that hate christians. They like to ridiculize, tell how stupid we are, call names and no matter what we say we are lying. Don't know where so much hate comes from. I thought I could join in here and have decent discussion about beliefs but for them we are too stupid to even be here.

[The Grand Nudger]

Speaking only for myself, I don't hate christians. I just think that christianity is disgusting. I'm sure you can have a decent discussion about your beliefs with the people here - but don't expect those people not to point out items in your beliefs that they find absurd......

[The Valkyrie]

I've never met a person who defined themselves as an atheist more than anything else. But atheism is the purpose of this forum. It is why we are here, to get away from the assumption of god. You came here and you are welcome to be here. But don't expect to speak about god unchallenged.

Do you talk about god much in church? Would you suffer an atheist to preach a sermon about skepticism one Sunday or teach an adult Sunday school class in atheism? Would the congregation nod politely and say ah just another point of view? I think not. I'm not neutral on the issue of god. Why should I be? There's no evidence of him, and so much harm is done by believing in him. No not all believers do bad things, but many of them who wouldn't do bad things in the name of god.

But I wouldn't outlaw religion. You're free to believe what you want. I wouldn't try to take that right from you. But yes I get tired of nodding politely when my sister-in-law say "don't you think it's the end times." And I'm really tired of attending school board meetings just to see the evolution is not only legal to teach, but is taught. (My best ally in that fight is Christian, but the opposition is all fundies and Mormons.) This is the place I get to let my hair down and not be overly polite about the ludicrous.

Ya, what I see here is a bunch of people atheists that hate christians. They like to ridiculize, tell how stupid we are, call names and no matter what we say we are lying. Don't know where so much hate comes from. I thought I could join in here and have decent discussion about beliefs but for them we are too stupid to even be here.

What I see here is someone who has come to an atheist website and is too lazy to research what he posts and, by his own admission, it seems, doesn't understand that which he criticises - a common failing for creationists.

I don't call theorists stupid. There are plenty who are very smart, and many who are far smarter than I. I don't like to generalise.

Of course, there are also those theists who are as dumb as mud.

ANd, just to break my generalising statement, the above includes creationists.

[alexwenzel]

ODDS OF A SINGLE CELL:

1 in 10 to the 2,680th power, or 1 followed by 2,680 zeros.

That is 30 times more particles believed to exist in the entire universe hock:

Lot of mysterious lottery winnings