Do you wish you could believe in a Deity?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

but the bible is fact, though you may not understand it, it still is, pretty mic everythig in the bible has been proven as factual history, and denying the bible is the same as denying Egypt as a civilization, or denying Jesus was ever an actual person

I think I just got debate wood...



Boru

[DeistPaladin]

...pretty mic everythig in the bible has been proven as factual history, ...

Let's do a quick review of the history of the world according to the Bible, just the highlights.

1. Six day creation, with plants being created before the sun and the earth before the stars.

2. Instant creation of the first man and woman from dirt. Whether woman was created before or after the animals were created depends on which chapter you read. Somehow, two of a kind can sustain a species.

3. Tower of Babel story. You can reach Heaven with a really tall tower. Yahweh is frightened by this prospect and curses humans, instantly creating all the languages there are today.

4. Global flood story. Noah creates a wooden boat much bigger than any seaworthy vessel could possibly be made from wood. Noah gathers either two of a kind from all over the world and somehow, once again, two of a kind can sustain a species without the problems of inbreeding. A staff of 8 somehow take care of all these animals when most zoos keep fewer animals and require a greater staff. Detailing all the problems with this story requires a doctoral thesis in Geology, Meteorology, Zoology, Naval Engineering, Oceanography and probably several other fields.

5. The Hebrew slave population of Egypt blossomed in population, going from 70 to 1.2 million people in just four generations, a figure which only makes sense if every female was constantly pregnant with twins.

6. Moses brings down a number of devastating plagues upon the Egyptians, leaving not a trace of evidence behind.

7. Moses leads his people for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Evidently, men really don't stop and ask for directions. Not a shred of evidence has ever been discovered.

8. David conquered a glorious Hebrew empire which nobody has ever found any evidence for. The closest artifact is an inscription which refers to the "House of David".

9. Jesus is born before 4 BC and after 6 AD at the same time (what a miracle). He performs many public miracles that amazes the crowd. He heals the sick, makes the lame walk, feeds thousands with only a few loaves and fishes, brings back the dead on a few occasions, his fame spreads like wildfire, and yet nobody outside of Christian circles pays any attention. The closest we have is from the Annals of Tacitus, a 2nd century reference so oblique it doesn't even mention Jesus by name.

10. The second coming and the end of the world was supposed to happen within the lifetimes of some of the original apostles. 2,000 years later, we're still waiting.

Final count: 0/10.

[SailingCyclops]

I no longer wish to believe in a spook than I wish to become mentally defective.

[ShaMan]

Belief in a D-iddy.

[Ravenshire]

Sometimes I wish I could believe in a god of something. There is a character in my favorite book series (The Dresden Files) who is a Knight of the Cross. He carries a sword that has a nail from the crusifiction worked into the steel. He and his two brethren are the fist of God on earth.

The way he takes comfort, and the way he is so sure and certain of his place in the world because of his faith is beautiful and inspiring.

Unfortunately for me, faith in a magic old guy who lives in the clouds that grants wishes is a no-go. Not to mention paying lip service to hypocritical, small minded, jack asses in the church is also a big fat non-starter.

Do you ever wish you could have faith in something? Humanity, even though it is pretty screwed up sometimes, still gives me real hope. But sometimes I feel a little empty.

Thoughts?

Love those books!

But, the gawd Michael takes so much comfort in is just as fictional as Michael.

No. I can't say I would ever be comforted by the idea of a supreme uber-ruler, even if it were benevolent.

---

I'm sorry I know in the rules it says not to do this, but I feel like I have to, and in sorry for it, but anyway:

It seems a lot of you hate our religion, and Jesus the most, why is that? What has our Gid done to you to deserve this hate?

Hate your religion? No. Why would I. Hate the harm it's done in the world? Yep. Hate it when another one of you christers tries for force your beliefs on us through legislation. Oh yeah. Hate the pointless bigotry and hatred spouted by your religion. Fucking-a right I do.

Hate your religion? No. I laugh at your religion and mock you tiny weak little gawd.

And like the other Christian said, you really need to give God a chance, if you open up to the church, the answers will be given to you and you will no longer need to search the world for them, instead you can live peacefully knowing that there are millions of people who love you, and an almighty God who spends his time worrying about and caring for you

Fuck you for your utter pretentiousness. Who the fuck are you to know if we've ever given your gawd a chance. Many here are former Christians. Some, like me, never believed, but wanted to so badly it hurt. Got on our knees and fucking begged for a sign and got fuck-all in response from that tiny little pathetic gawd you claim is all powerful. And before you start in on "free will," your "all powerful" gawd knows exactly what would convince me, exactly how to present it so as not to violate my "free will" and has still done fuck-all.

Piss off gawd-boy!

---

That may have come across wrong, but as Christians we do love you

No you fucking don't. You don't even know me well enough to say you like me, let alone love. What you're really saying is "it makes me feel good to say I love you 'cause it'll get me brownie points with jebus!!!!!"

you are like family to us, we'll really you are family.

I want a divorce! You are not my family, quit claiming you are.

But we hate your sin, not the sinner.

Bullshit. You assholes love saying this and it pure bullshit.

And what the pope does, does not concern me, the pope is a man, just like my pastor and just like me, we are all equal in the eyes of God, but back to the point[/quote]
Prove your puny little gawd exists. Then maybe I'll consider kicking it's ass.

I love you, All the other Christians love you

Quit saying this. You're fucking lying. "Thou shall not bear false witness..." Sound familliar.

but I do feel that deliberately downgrading our God is unnecessary

You're right. It is completely unnecessary to downgrade something so puny to begin with.

and we do not search for the answers because God IS the answer

Whatever the question is, gawd is the wrong answer.

I already know how the universe was created, how we were created, so there is no need to search because we already have them

For a weak mind like yours, gawd may be all the answer you need. For someone who wants the truth (or as close as we can get to it) about the world, it's not even a good starting point.

BTW - You have no[i/] answers to any of my questions. They're well past your grade level.

---

I'm sorry but we are not trying to hypnotize people to our liking

Nope. You just want to brainwash us!

And I'm not asking for your ridicule

But, you got it!

---

I have read the bible multiple times through and through

Really? So, how many times does gawd commit genocide or order it committed?

---

Do you ever wish you could have faith in something?

The FUCK you talking about?!? I have faith in many things. Reasonable faith based on evidence. Not that blind faith crap the religions try to pass off as a virtue instead of the handicap it is.

---

Ok, whatever you think is your opinion, but the bible is fact, though you may not understand it, it still is

Prove it.

pretty mic everythig in the bible has been proven as factual history

Bullshit. That fucking book is riddled with errors and contradictions.

and denying the bible is the same as denying Egypt as a civilization, or denying Jesus was ever an actual person

Prove he ever existed.

My heart weeps for the people on this site

Your tears are delicious!

so hateful, so lost

As I explained before. I do not hate you or your religion. Only the harm that comes from it. And, I know EXACTLY where I am.

I hope when te rapture comes, and ten the 7 dy tribulation takes place you can see you error and be saved

Which fucking rapture?!? Seriously? You believe that shit? Did you sell all your shit and give the money away the last time one was predicted? Will you the next time. Hey. I've got an idea. Next time ('cause that'll be the really for sure one, really) I'll take care of your pets after your gone for just a one time $500 (non-refundable) fee. What do you say. Gotta make sure Fido's taken care of, right?

---

Idk what bible yore reading, but the bible never said that about the moon

[emphasis is mine]
Genesis:
"1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

So, how many times did you say you've read that book?

Theonewhoanswersyourquestions, here's your sign:

Please wear it everywhere so people will know what to expect from you.

---

That's what I meant when I said factual history, and yes, the story of Moses has already been proven, how they got across the sea we "don't know" but it still happened

Evidence of that "proven" story please.

no there is very little evidence of Noah but you'd just shrug it off

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

and Jesus, i have to completly call you off on that one, there is thousands of journals and news and speaking a of Jesus walking the Earth, and glad I found one more understating atheists on this site, that makes a total of two so far

If there are thousands, perhaps you can demonstrate one. Please keep in mind that the only valid evidence for jebus would be contemporary evidence. [i]Not some shit written years, decades or even centuries after his alleged death.

---

That does not say it gives off it's own light, you totally over interpret it, the sun gives the moon it's light and te moon gives us the suns light

Nope. It says two lights, not a light and a reflector. Reading comprehension is a valuable skill!

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I feel sorry for you that you need your imagination in order to feel as loved as you apparently are.

I've got all the love I could ever want from my friends and family.

---

'Try'? I actively can. The bible is an incoherent mess and thus any attempt to defend it alway strays into the realm of interpretation and apologetics.

Your god commits omni-cide and you try and defend it as loving?

Yeah no thanks. Only a sucker would actively sign up to an abusive relationship.

Ok, whatever you think is your opinion, but the bible is fact, though you may not understand it, it still is, pretty mic everythig in the bible has been proven as factual history, and denying the bible is the same as denying Egypt as a civilization, or denying Jesus was ever an actual person

Oh so it's straight to typical theistic condescension now is it? I 'think' I know what my opinion is?

Kid, it's pretty clear from this very small exchange that I 'think' a lot more than you do.

And for the record, the bible is about as good as disseminating truth and facts as you appear to be, which is to say, piss fucking poor.

I already know that discoursing with you is pointless as you appear to be another shell of a human being; a husk incapable of Independent thought. I truly am sorry you've wasted your life.

My heart weeps for the people on this site, so hateful, so lost, I hope when te rapture comes, and ten the 7 dy tribulation takes place you can see you error and be saved

Oh saying we're all going to go to this imaginary hell place because we don't have the same silly beliefs as you? That's the way to win us over buddy!

Save the condescension yeah? You're in no position to feel smug or superior.

[Confused Ape]

It is mentioned in the gospel if Isaiah, chapter number 13, verse number 10 which says:
"The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light."

and in Ezekiel, chapter number 32, verse number 7, that the light of the moon is it's own light:

"When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light."

and in the gospel of Mathew, chapter number 24, verse number 29 which says:

"Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken."

gospel of Mark, chapter number 13, verse number 24:

"But in those days, following that distress, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light"

That does not say it gives off it's own light, you totally over interpret it, the sun gives the moon it's light and te moon gives us the suns light,

I agree that all but one of those verses can be interpreted as meaning the moon's light is reflected sunlight. After all, we know that if the sun was darkened the moon wouldn't have anything to reflect. Ezekiel's version is a bit baffling, however, unless we take it as a metaphor. It's still possible that the people who wrote these books of the Bible knew what moonlight is, though - Anaxagoras

Anaxagoras (/ˌænækˈsæɡərəs/; Ancient Greek: Ἀναξαγόρας, Anaxagoras, "lord of the assembly"; c. 510 – 428 BC) was a Pre-Socratic Greek philosopher.

He was the first to explain that the moon shines due to reflected light from the sun

He wouldn't have got this bit of information because the God of the Bible revealed it to him. He happened to be the first person we know of to explain moonlight but this doesn't automatically mean that he was the first person in history to figure it out.

History Of Astronomy

Astronomy is the oldest of the natural sciences, dating back to antiquity, with its origins in the religious, mythological, and astrological practices of pre-history: vestiges of these are still found in astrology, a discipline long interwoven with public and governmental astronomy, and not completely disentangled from it until a few centuries ago in the Western World (see astrology and astronomy). In some cultures astronomical data was used for astrological prognostication.

Ancient astronomers were able to differentiate between stars and planets, as stars remain relatively fixed over the centuries while planets will move an appreciable amount during a comparatively short time.

Mesopotamia

The origins of Western astronomy can be found in Mesopotamia, the "land between the rivers" Tigris and Euphrates, where the ancient kingdoms of Sumer, Assyria, and Babylonia were located. A form of writing known as cuneiform emerged among the Sumerians around 3500–3000 BC. Our knowledge of Sumerian astronomy is indirect, via the earliest Babylonian star catalogues dating from about 1200 BC. The fact that many star names appear in Sumerian suggests a continuity reaching into the Early Bronze Age. Astral theology, which gave planetary gods an important role in Mesopotamian mythology and religion, began with the Sumerians. They also used a sexagesimal (base 60) place-value number system, which simplified the task of recording very large and very small numbers. The modern practice of dividing a circle into 360 degrees, of 60 minutes each, began with the Sumerians.

On the other hand - Book of Isiah

Isaiah identifies itself as the words of the 8th century BC prophet Isaiah ben Amoz, but there is ample evidence that much of it was composed during the Babylonian captivity and later.[3]

The Babylonian captivity (or Babylonian exile) is the period in Jewish history during which a number of Jews of the ancient Kingdom of Judah were captives in Babylonia. After the Battle of Carchemish in 605 BCE, Nebuchadnezzar besieged Jerusalem, resulting in tribute being paid by King Jehoiakim.[1] Jehoiakim refused to pay tribute in Nebuchadnezzar's fourth year, which led to another siege in Nebuchadnezzar's seventh year, culminating with the death of Jehoiakim, and the exile of King Jeconiah, his court and many others; Jeconiah's successor Zedekiah and others were exiled in Nebuchadnezzar's eighteenth year; a later deportation occurred in Nebuchadnezzar's twenty-third year. These deportations are dated to 597 BCE, c. 587 BCE, and c. 582 BCE, respectively.

After the fall of Babylon to the Persian king Cyrus the Great in 538 BCE, exiled Jews began to return to the land of Judah.

Book Of Ezekiel - Composition

The Book of Ezekiel describes itself as the words of the Ezekiel ben-Buzi, a priest living in exile in the city of Babylon between 593 and 571. Most scholars today accept the basic authenticity of the book, but see in it significant additions by a "school" of later followers of the original prophet.[6] While the book exhibits considerable unity and probably reflects much of the historic Ezekiel, it is the product of a long and complex history and does not necessarily preserve the very words of the prophet.[7]

Seeing as the books of Ezekiel and Isaiah were 'updated' after the Babylonian captivity it's possible that the writers had heard of Anaxagoras's explanation because word had got round in the ancient world. The gospels of Matthew and Mark were written several centuries after Anaxagoras's time.

Conclusion - even if those lines in the Bible indicate that the writers knew what moonlight is, it still doesn't mean that they got a revelation from God about it.