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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 19, 2014 at 3:40 pm
(June 19, 2014 at 3:39 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes. So my disobeying would be me, or you, acting immorally from a position of perfect knowledge, where yours and my knowledge is imperfect.
An extreme request of a parent given the emotional bias. The reason the story has this extreme is to make a point.
Wow. Well I'm glad you came out and said it..
If God told you to kill your son...which would be a perfectly moral command to give...you would disobey him, and be the one in wrong.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 19, 2014 at 3:40 pm
(June 19, 2014 at 3:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: But for the faithful, it's a rock and a hardplace. You either lack faith (wouldn't kill jr no matter what), or become a douche the moment ghosts are invoked (well..I suppose if god said so.....). Personally I just go the lack faith route. I don't see where this is an issue for Christians, as the Bible says bluntly that we lack faith.
It can be made more difficult for the atheist. The disconnect is that the theist is taking an omniscient god's word that the action is moral, while the atheist is limited to current knowledge. Suppose we say that the son is crazy and is about to kill a roomful of children, and the atheist father has a chance to kill the son before he does so. Now the playing field is leveled a bit.
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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 19, 2014 at 3:54 pm
(June 19, 2014 at 3:40 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Wow. Well I'm glad you came out and said it..
If God told you to kill your son...which would be a perfectly moral command to give...you would disobey him, and be the one in wrong.
That's nonsense.
So if it was perfectly moral to kill your son (given), you wouldn't kill your son. You would be wrong.
You're decision is exactly the same as mine.
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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 19, 2014 at 4:03 pm
(June 19, 2014 at 3:54 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (June 19, 2014 at 3:40 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Wow. Well I'm glad you came out and said it..
If God told you to kill your son...which would be a perfectly moral command to give...you would disobey him, and be the one in wrong.
That's nonsense.
So if it was perfectly moral to kill your son (given), you wouldn't kill your son. You would be wrong.
You're decision is exactly the same as mine.
Ugh..there's only so much I can take in one day..
You're more moral than your supposed God, man. It's a shame you refuse to acknowledge it.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 19, 2014 at 4:15 pm
(This post was last modified: June 19, 2014 at 4:15 pm by fr0d0.)
I think your referring to your understanding of my God.
I'll chalk it up as another victory 
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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 19, 2014 at 8:26 pm
(This post was last modified: June 19, 2014 at 8:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 19, 2014 at 3:02 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Can a morally perfect God direct someone to commit a morally imperfect act. It's nonsense. Of course he can, that's pretty much the crux of the narrative. He just pulls out the ole take-back-sies, sprinkles some favors after the request, etc. Schoolyard stuff.
This is, obviously, why it's not a question begging yarn. Morality goes beyond what you do, to what you think. Legality (in our case) starts at what you do, regardless of what you think. Could a morally perfect god yadda yadda..yes....but could a "morally perfect" human being even decide upon compliance to that request? No. At least not with our (yours and mine) shared understanding of the morality of infanticide. Dues ex machina..hand waiving, etc.
sadface.
That's why it's all so damned silly.
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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 19, 2014 at 9:12 pm
(June 19, 2014 at 4:15 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I think your referring to your understanding of my God.
I'll chalk it up as another victory
This is what frodo hears in his head as he DESTROYS another atheist
If the hypothetical idea of an afterlife means more to you than the objectively true reality we all share, then you deserve no respect.
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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 20, 2014 at 12:29 pm
As an atheist I am responsible for my own morality, theists have outsourced theirs, which has often led to atrocities.
If you can persuade a believer that killing is "gods will" they will not hesitate.
Sept 11 comes to mind.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 20, 2014 at 6:07 pm
I would argue that a selfish morality is dangerous. But there's no doubt that collective abuse that breeds violence is abhorrent.
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RE: Sacrificing our Moral Compasses
June 20, 2014 at 11:02 pm
(June 20, 2014 at 6:07 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I would argue that a selfish morality is dangerous. But there's no doubt that collective abuse that breeds violence is abhorrent.
Funny how you prop the guy who basically refutes the notion that the Christian worldview is moral.
Newsflash bud, the theistic worldview is selfish, everyone's worldview is to some degree, there's no way of getting around it.
If the hypothetical idea of an afterlife means more to you than the objectively true reality we all share, then you deserve no respect.
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