Sacrificing our Moral Compasses

[FatAndFaithless]

Hey folks. Just wanted to share something I read and hoped to get your input (theist or atheist).
I sometimes read Christian journals or forums or news sites just to keep my finger on the pulse and have a general idea of what’s going on in Christian America, and most of the time the bulk of the stories or articles end with me scoffing softly and shaking my head.
However there is one reoccurring theme that absolutely makes my stomach turn, and in my opinion is one of the most dangerous characteristics of Christianity (and most other religions).

I was browsing the Christian sub-reddits and I came across someone who had a genuine question about morality (in specific sexual morality) and asked that if something does no harm to anyone and doesn’t violate anyone else’s rights, how can it be wrong? People trotted out the responses I usually see such as contraception preventing human life and robust sexual activity being harmful to one’s spiritual being…and one argument that is absolutely hideous.
Someone responded to the OPs issues with:]

“Thought experiment: suppose God arbitrarily decides it's bad to do X, even though doing X produces no discernible negative consequences. Given that morality depends upon God's nature and preferences rather than what you and I might prefer, therefore it follows that doing X is wrong regardless of whether you can explain why, or see any direct negative effects.”

The utter surrender of one’s own moral compass to the whims (as the above mentions) of a being is something that I find both disgusting and extremely dangerous. Withholding from behavior that can be enriching and fun and productive and healthy SIMPLY because skydaddy says its bad is scary enough, but the flip side of that is thinking that something harmful, restrictive, dangerous, and injurious is OKAY to do because skydaddy says so.
Do I think that anyone who believes in God-based morality is necessarily going to do something horrid based on their beliefs? Of course not. But people HAVE done horrible things based on this idea, and the pathway of their logic is very clear.
Genuflecting to a higher authority on moral questions while willingly and openly surrendering your own morals is probably the single most revolting thing about religions to me. Besides, if our moral compasses are so broken and incompetent, how do you trust your judgment that “God is good?”, if you’re coming to a moral conclusion using flawed instruments?

Just wondering your guys’ thoughts.

[John V]

From your POV, which I take to be atheist, people can't surrender their own moral compass to that of a god. They're rather surrendering it to the moral compass of other men. That's pretty much necessary to an extent, unless you're advocating anarchy.

[FatAndFaithless]

From your POV, which I take to be atheist, people can't surrender their own moral compass to that of a god. They're rather surrendering it to the moral compass of other men. That's pretty much necessary to an extent, unless you're advocating anarchy.

I don't think I'm exactly sure what you mean. When Christians claim that God is the moral authority, and that right and wrong is contingent upon his word, then they are surrendering their morals compasses to God.

or, are you saying that the Bible is simply written by men trying to interpret the word of God...and therefore I suppose if someone adhered to Biblical morality they would in a sense be surrendering to other humans' morality.

(Sorry if you've gone over your beliefs before, I'm new to the forum)

[John V]

I'm saying that, from an atheist POV, If religion is evil, and religion was invented by men, then men are evil.

[FatAndFaithless]

I'm saying that, from an atheist POV, If religion is evil, and religion was invented by men, then men are evil.

Well I meant more from a Christian's point of view, like the reply example I gave in quotes in my OP. A Christian that openly and honestly states God determines right and wrong, even if their own moral sensibilities disagree, is surrendering their morality to their god.

[Rampant.A.I.]

I'm saying that, from an atheist POV, If religion is evil, and religion was invented by men, then men are evil.

Ignoring, of course, that "Good or Evil" is a false dichotomy and gross oversimplification of why dogmatic belief and support of Bronze Age values in a modern society is morally harmful, and the fact that Christians do not "surrender their morality to God," as plenty of Christians can distinguish parts of biblical morality that are not moral; had they surrendered their morality to God they would not be able to do that.



Come on.

[ShaMan]

Direction is everything.

[FatAndFaithless]

I'm saying that, from an atheist POV, If religion is evil, and religion was invented by men, then men are evil.

Ignoring, of course, that "Good or Evil" is a false dichotomy and gross oversimplification of why dogmatic belief and support of Bronze Age values in a modern society is morally harmful, and the fact that Christians do not "surrender their morality to God," as plenty of Christians can distinguish parts of biblical morality that are not moral; had they surrendered their morality to God they would not be able to do that.



Come on.

Well obviously I'm not talking about Christianity as whole, since there are...like a jillion different sects, but there are large numbers of people that do claim that the Bible/God is the source of morality, period. You see it when people hem and haw and try to re-characterize slavery in the bible as simply indentured servitude or somesuch, instead of being able to say that idea is morally wrong, regardless of being in the bible.

And sure there are Christians who disagree with plenty of stuff in the bible, and in my opinion those people are more moral than the God they profess. But even on smaller issues than slavery (like contraception or gay sex), people can hold moral beleifs that have no grounding in reality simply based on the fact that their church has decreed it as immoral.

[laikashuman]

i think i get what you mean.

believers (in this case a Christian) MUST blindly give up their own insights into right/wrong and follow that which is dictated in the bible (which is according to them, god's word).

a TRUE christian would follow the bible to a t (as it is literally written). even the parts about raping, killing unbelievers, stoning, slavery, etc. because they have CHOSEN to be slaves to this god that has written this bible as a guide to men to live by.

a CHERRY PICKING christian would only follow parts of the bible in which he/she morally accepts as right or whatever suits their lifestyle or agenda. or find the bible to be allegorical and just a mere suggestion for living.

it is truly dangerous to be a member of any religion because you are basically giving up all your actions, thoughts, and morals to the "word of god" which is written by fallible men.

did i answer your question? or was i on point anyway?

[ThePinsir]

how do you trust your judgment that “God is good?”

God is good because the Bible says so. I know the Bible is true because it says so right in this Bible! Duh!

:p