Abortion is morally wrong

[Anomalocaris]

If fetuses are human beings than the question becomes what business is it of mothers to do with other humans bodies? The answer to me, is clear. If a fetus is a human than bodily rights must also be given to them and murder is ontologically wrong.

Whether something may be clear to you has no bearing on how anyone else should perceive it. Arguing from arbitrary, ambigious, dubious, or multilayered definition is not convincing to any thinking person who is not already convinced.

[Esquilax]

If fetuses are human beings than the question becomes what business is it of mothers to do with other humans bodies? The answer to me, is clear. If a fetus is a human than bodily rights must also be given to them and murder is ontologically wrong.

What business is it of theirs? Well gee, don't you think it'd somewhat become your business if another person decided to try and live inside you? It became their business the moment their personal space and autonomy was infringed upon; by your logic, being robbed is no business of the victim because they have no business telling the mugger what to do with their own bodies.

As human beings our freedom to act stops at the point that it interferes directly with another.

[Elskidor]

I was against late term abortions, but after reading some statistics from previous abortion threads I now question that. Add the extremely low % of children ever being adopted out, the planet being beyond populated, thanks to those who don't believe in birth control, rape victims and people that can't provide for this potential child and is it really wrong? And then it is also entirely debatable when the fetus is actually a human being.

Anyhow, my opinion should only matter if it's something my wife and I are faced with... We are on our second miscarriage this year and are still going to be trying so I'm sure this won't be something we consider. I do think the father, if he wants to be a part of the decision, should have more of a say, but I don't think abortions are morally wrong.

[Arthur123]

Esquilax, autonomy is never and should never trump the ethical consequences of allowing murder. Autonomy is good up until the point someone chooses to enact something immoral. Our justice system and all morality indeed, rests on this principle. The fact that it is not applied in the act of abortion I believe, is a gross injustice and ignorance on the topic. If a fetus is human than eliminating it is morally wrong and should not be allowed. The simple fact that it is using a women's body is a secondary fact.
Secondly, I am moving from the starting point of objective morality due to the fact that if denied, this discussion has no merit. Autonomy, life, ect. have no value at all and murder would be morally acceptable. This is not relevant to the discussion my friend.

---

Esquilax, aborting a human being infringes on their body as well. Albeit, in the most final and morally unacceptable way.

[Minimalist]

So far you are the only one calling it "murder." Who died and made you king?

[Anomalocaris]

Esquilax, autonomy is never and should never trump the ethical consequences of allowing murder. Autonomy is good up until the point someone chooses to enact something immoral. Our justice system and all morality indeed, rests on this principle. The fact that it is not applied in the act of abortion I believe, is a gross injustice and ignorance on the topic. If a fetus is human than eliminating it is morally wrong and should not be allowed. The simple fact that it is using a women's body is a secondary fact.
Secondly, I am moving from the starting point of objective morality due to the fact that if denied, this discussion has no merit. Autonomy, life, ect. have no value at all and murder would be morally acceptable. This is not relevant to the discussion my friend.

You just said you constrict the discussion to premises leads to that outcome which you desire.

We think your desired outcome is in itself bullshit, and therefore we have no tolerance for your premise.

So don't bother us with where your starting point is. Defend your ending point on terms of purely its own merit.

[The Valkyrie]

Hello, I am new to these forums and am interested in engaging in fruitful and intellectual stimulating conversations! Today, I am interested in the topic of abortion. I believe it to be morally wrong for non-religious reasons. Simply put, a fetus is a human being from the moment of conception since it belongs to the species homo-sapiens and is genetically complete in its information. I look forward to any responses!

Kindest Regards,

"Simply put, a fetus is a human being from the moment of conception since it belongs to the species homo-sapiens and is genetically complete in its information"

Wrong.

I accept that it's a person at viability, when it can live outside the body of the mother and is not completely dependent on her body for its life. Until then, it's not a person.

[laikashuman]

i think that saying "abortion is morally wrong" really comes down to whether you believe we have souls/spirits at all and whether we have them at the time of conception.

i find the whole theory of souls/spirits to be too supernaturally for me.

[Losty]

Welcome to the forum. You chose a wonderful first discussion topic. It hasn't been debated to death by everyone
I hope you don't plan to take your lead from Heywood.
Anyways, nice to meet you have some abortion cookies

---

Oops I meant welcome cookies

[The Valkyrie]

Esquilax, autonomy is never and should never trump the ethical consequences of allowing murder. Autonomy is good up until the point someone chooses to enact something immoral. Our justice system and all morality indeed, rests on this principle. The fact that it is not applied in the act of abortion I believe, is a gross injustice and ignorance on the topic. If a fetus is human than eliminating it is morally wrong and should not be allowed. The simple fact that it is using a women's body is a secondary fact.
Secondly, I am moving from the starting point of objective morality due to the fact that if denied, this discussion has no merit. Autonomy, life, ect. have no value at all and murder would be morally acceptable. This is not relevant to the discussion my friend.

---

Esquilax, aborting a human being infringes on their body as well. Albeit, in the most final and morally unacceptable way.

It's not murder, and using such a provocatively emotional term is something the forced birthers just love to do.