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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 6:22 pm
(June 17, 2014 at 4:41 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: I shall begin with the presupposition that objective morality exists and work from there.
So will I.
The overwhelming majority of successful fertilizations which do not carry to term end because of what we atheists would call natural causes. Since you believe in an omnipotent/omniscient God, who has planned every movement of every particle of the universe since he made it, every pregnancy which is prematurely ended is necessarily a deliberate act on the part of your god.
Since it is your assertion that morality is objective, and further, your assertion that killing innocents is murder, you must naturally acknowledge that your god is an immoral mass murderer.
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 6:23 pm
(June 17, 2014 at 6:19 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (June 17, 2014 at 6:12 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I would not agree to "at all costs". We can simply place every human being in solitary confinement: no more murder.
I doubt many would find the cost in liberty to be acceptable.
That's a good point, I guess I was being too broad in my answer there. I'll add, "to the extent that it is reasonable to prevent murder, one should," instead, then. 
Any time I see something like "at all cost", or the like, I start to think I'm being steered into an intellectual ambush.
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 6:32 pm
Hitler's mother is a mass murderer in the second degree!
Or are you going to tell me that her actions were well intentioned, therefore is ok and her conscious is clear...
Sorry, this is more of a philsophical q.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 6:53 pm
(June 17, 2014 at 5:33 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Thank you for the warm welcome, everyone! Unfortunately I can not eat cookies..I am allergic to gluten :/ I outlined my reasons for classifying fetus' as human beings in my first post and the following few posts. If and only if a fetus is a human being than abortion is murder. I am arguing that point. Beccs, the problem with your definition is it confuses human beings with their functionality instead of their ontology (what that thing actually is.) Not to mention the ethical issues that would result from such a view not even counting abortion.
Here's some ontology for you: something that doesn't have even a rudimentary brain is not a human being, is arguably not a 'being' at all, and most human it can be is genetically human. And note the way you add ad hoc qualifiers if someone points out that a biopsy is genetically human (completely so!). It takes more than a sequence of molecules to be a human being.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 6:56 pm
If you don't like abortion, Arthur, then don't have one.
Next.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 6:58 pm
You all have given me much to think about! Allow me time to give you ample responses worthy of your responses 
Kindest Regards
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 7:09 pm
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 7:13 pm
(June 17, 2014 at 6:58 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: You all have given me much to think about! Allow me time to give you ample responses worthy of your responses
Kindest Regards
Why do I read this as "I'll get back to you after I check with my handlers."?
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 7:14 pm
(June 17, 2014 at 6:32 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Hitler's mother is a mass murderer in the second degree!
Or are you going to tell me that her actions were well intentioned, therefore is ok and her conscious is clear...
Sorry, this is more of a philsophical q.
Suppose Hitler's mother KNEW what he would become? (Save yourselves the trouble of looking - she died in 1907.) Should she have aborted little Adolf? Is that one of those abortions to be avoided at all costs?
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RE: Abortion is morally wrong
June 17, 2014 at 7:15 pm
(This post was last modified: June 17, 2014 at 7:16 pm by Bad Wolf.)
Arthur, if I kidnapped you, chained you up in my basement and hooked you up to my kidneys to filter my blood, would you be ok with that? Is that morally wrong? And would you allow it to continue?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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