Abortion is morally wrong

[Losty]

Lol all is fair in love and war and forum debates bae
Doesn't mean I'm annoyed with you personally. We can still be friends even if we have to agree to disagree.

[Dystopia]

Lol all is fair in love and war and forum debates bae
Doesn't mean I'm annoyed with you personally. We can still be friends even if we have to agree to disagree.

What does bae mean? I don't know

We are not in so much disagreement as you think. I just want people to have their rights in an equilibrium of peace. I do not want people having too many or too few rights. That is my duty as a future judge.

[rexbeccarox]

To an extent, I agree with Blackout in that I don't think people should have to do things they feel morally obliged not to. Here's the thing, though: I choose not to be an executioner on death row because I have moral objections to the Death Penalty. I chose not to take that job with the NSA because I disagree with their practices (my sister jokes I'd become the next Snowden). Tell you what: doctors who are against abortions shouldn't be OB/Gyns; instead they should be podiatrists or neurologists, or allergists... dermatologists, even. I bet it's rare to never that allergists have to perform abortions. Maybe Jake will come in and tell us how many abortions he's had to perform as a podiatrist.

But, Blackout, you need to stop using anecdotal evidence (at best) for your arguments. Why are we supposed to believe that instances of abortion have gone up in Portugal? Why are we supposed to believe that med students where you live object to abortion? And even if we were to believe those things, why do they matter?

[Minimalist]

instead they should be podiatrists or neurologists, or allergists... dermatologists, even.

Proctologist would be a suitable field.

[Dystopia]

To an extent, I agree with Blackout in that I don't think people should have to do things they feel morally obliged not to. Here's the thing, though: I choose not to be an executor on death row because I have moral objections to the Death Penalty. I chose not to take that job with the NSA because I disagree with their practices (my sister jokes I'd become the next Snowden). Tell you what: doctors who are against abortions shouldn't be OB/Gyns; instead they should be podiatrists or neurologists, or allergists... dermatologists, even. I bet it's rare to never that allergists have to perform abortions. Maybe Jake will come in and tell us how many abortions he's had to perform as a podiatrist.

But, Blackout, you need to stop using anecdotal evidence (at best) for your arguments. Why are we supposed to believe that instances of abortion have gone up in Portugal? Why are we supposed to believe that med students where you live object to abortion? And even if we were to believe those things, why do they matter?

I'll start by answering your last question. Indeed they don't matter

I didn't state as a fact med students object abortion, I don't have any evidence for it, merely my personal experience with one of the best med schools in my country, my personal relationships of friendship with students of that institution and what they tell me about med students perspectives corroborate the view that most students are at least not settled to being OK with abortion. This is just a conjecture for a particular case, I didn't intend to say all med students are against abortion

Evidence? Can I ask if you can read in portuguese? Our national institute of statistics and other entities have made studies that corroborate the growth in abortions at least from 2007-2010, I haven't seen any studies regarding 2010-2014. It is however possible, from a purely deductive perspective to justify the growth in abortion by 3 simple factors that anyone with a minimum of economy/sociological basic knowledge will understand. 1 - An economical crisis means parents will have less money, therefore they can't have many kids 2 - Contraceptives not being free or a huge lack of information and sexual education regarding a lot of poor couples from segregated neighboors and the increase in proverty also justify this. 3 - The moment after something becomes legal, usually causes a temporary raise in demand. When abortion was illegal, not all women had clandestine abortions, many of them were afraid of consequences. By making it legal, women that didn't want to be forced to bear an unwanted child were finally able to abort and made use of such right.

Is that enough for you? or do you want a translation to english from statistics? I can show you some bar graphs, online news. etc. Nevertheless, the increase or not in abortion is completely irrelevant to this discussion, as long as it is done legally.

I'll have to leave now, it's 3.22AM, I'm going to bed. Good night.

[The Valkyrie]

instead they should be podiatrists or neurologists, or allergists... dermatologists, even.

Proctologist would be a suitable field.

Nasal proctologists - a strange new speciality . . .

[rexbeccarox]

---

To an extent, I agree with Blackout in that I don't think people should have to do things they feel morally obliged not to. Here's the thing, though: I choose not to be an executor on death row because I have moral objections to the Death Penalty. I chose not to take that job with the NSA because I disagree with their practices (my sister jokes I'd become the next Snowden). Tell you what: doctors who are against abortions shouldn't be OB/Gyns; instead they should be podiatrists or neurologists, or allergists... dermatologists, even. I bet it's rare to never that allergists have to perform abortions. Maybe Jake will come in and tell us how many abortions he's had to perform as a podiatrist.

But, Blackout, you need to stop using anecdotal evidence (at best) for your arguments. Why are we supposed to believe that instances of abortion have gone up in Portugal? Why are we supposed to believe that med students where you live object to abortion? And even if we were to believe those things, why do they matter?

I'll start by answering your last question. Indeed they don't matter

I didn't state as a fact med students object abortion, I don't have any evidence for it, merely my personal experience with one of the best med schools in my country, my personal relationships of friendship with students of that institution and what they tell me about med students perspectives corroborate the view that most students are at least not settled to being OK with abortion. This is just a conjecture for a particular case, I didn't intend to say all med students are against abortion

Evidence? Can I ask if you can read in portuguese? Our national institute of statistics and other entities have made studies that corroborate the growth in abortions at least from 2007-2010, I haven't seen any studies regarding 2010-2014. It is however possible, from a purely deductive perspective to justify the growth in abortion by 3 simple factors that anyone with a minimum of economy/sociological basic knowledge will understand. 1 - An economical crisis means parents will have less money, therefore they can't have many kids 2 - Contraceptives not being free or a huge lack of information and sexual education regarding a lot of poor couples from segregated neighboors and the increase in proverty also justify this. 3 - The moment after something becomes legal, usually causes a temporary raise in demand. When abortion was illegal, not all women had clandestine abortions, many of them were afraid of consequences. By making it legal, women that didn't want to be forced to bear an unwanted child were finally able to abort and made use of such right.

Is that enough for you? or do you want a translation to english from statistics? I can show you some bar graphs, online news. etc. Nevertheless, the increase or not in abortion is completely irrelevant to this discussion, as long as it is done legally.

I'll have to leave now, it's 3.22AM, I'm going to bed. Good night.

---

All of those statistics are fine, if they're true, and I don't speak Portuguese (how many people really do outside of Portugal and Brazil?), but like I said: they don't matter. You're the one using them in your arguments. All I'm doing is calling you out on it. If they're irrelevant, why are you using them?

You're not addressing the meat of my argument, found in the first paragraph.

[Minimalist]

Proctologist would be a suitable field.

Nasal proctologists - a strange new speciality . . .

"Blow Jesus Out Your Nose" doesn't sound half good enough!

[Dystopia]

---

I'll start by answering your last question. Indeed they don't matter

I didn't state as a fact med students object abortion, I don't have any evidence for it, merely my personal experience with one of the best med schools in my country, my personal relationships of friendship with students of that institution and what they tell me about med students perspectives corroborate the view that most students are at least not settled to being OK with abortion. This is just a conjecture for a particular case, I didn't intend to say all med students are against abortion

Evidence? Can I ask if you can read in portuguese? Our national institute of statistics and other entities have made studies that corroborate the growth in abortions at least from 2007-2010, I haven't seen any studies regarding 2010-2014. It is however possible, from a purely deductive perspective to justify the growth in abortion by 3 simple factors that anyone with a minimum of economy/sociological basic knowledge will understand. 1 - An economical crisis means parents will have less money, therefore they can't have many kids 2 - Contraceptives not being free or a huge lack of information and sexual education regarding a lot of poor couples from segregated neighboors and the increase in proverty also justify this. 3 - The moment after something becomes legal, usually causes a temporary raise in demand. When abortion was illegal, not all women had clandestine abortions, many of them were afraid of consequences. By making it legal, women that didn't want to be forced to bear an unwanted child were finally able to abort and made use of such right.

Is that enough for you? or do you want a translation to english from statistics? I can show you some bar graphs, online news. etc. Nevertheless, the increase or not in abortion is completely irrelevant to this discussion, as long as it is done legally.

I'll have to leave now, it's 3.22AM, I'm going to bed. Good night.

---

All of those statistics are fine, if they're true, and I don't speak Portuguese (how many people really do outside of Portugal and Brazil?), but like I said: they don't matter. You're the one using them in your arguments. All I'm doing is calling you out on it. If they're irrelevant, why are you using them?

You're not addressing the meat of my argument, found in the first paragraph.

I argued because first you called one of my personal opinion an argument, something I never stated (the thing about med students not being ok with abortion), that was never supposed to be an argument. Then I argued because you called my argument of increase of abortions anecdotal while there are statistics saying otherwise. It doesn't matter as long as they are done safely, after all we are preventing deaths that come from illegal abortions. Outside of brazil and portugal other countries speak portuguese, mainly our former colonies, check out Mozambique, Angola etc

As for your first paragraph, I agree with your saying of people not being forced to go against their moral/ethical conscience. I too wouldn't be able to execute someone as a job, since I oppose the death penalty. It makes sense for a doctor to balance the specialty considering the probability of having to deal with abortion, but since here we have specialized clinics, there is not even a need for it, if you work in an hospital you will never have to deal with abortion. Period.

[rexbeccarox]

I'm sorry... what are you arguing then? You use things as if they're arguments, then say they're not your arguments.

Can you summarize what you are arguing for/against? It's getting very confusing.