Christian motives to lie.

[Cyberman]

The original page is filled with comments, hundreds of them, all mindlessly parroting “amen^ like some glaze-eyed remake of The Stepford Wives or something. It takes on a comic flavour with the appearance of the occasional mocking comment; all those “amen“s then seem to agree with them.

[ThomM]

Do not, I repeat, do not give up your religion. You simply aren't ready. If you can't take responsibility for your own words and actions without whining about what others have done to you, you just don't have a moral center. Cleave tightly to your objective, god-given morals. It's really all you have.

Nice way to avoid the subject! And you cling tightly to your lie.

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That's funny, I thought this thread was made to denigrate liars for christianity, a specific subset of your religion that you should be insulting too, not your religion as a whole. That reaction is a little telling, actually, that you'd look at a thread that started with a story about a man deliberately faking a miracle (where's your condemnation for him, incidentally?) and decide that, since we're talking about specific examples of christian liars conning people for their faith, we must be talking about all christians!

Is the connection between "lying" and "christianity" so strong in your mind? Or is it, which I think is more likely, that you aren't actually reading the posts and are leaping to the defense of something you haven't really bothered to comprehend? Did you just see "christian" and "lie" in the thread title and jump to a conclusion?

How would you respond to a thread subject: "Atheist motives to lie"?

Or... would I need some pluralization for it to bother you?

There is no motivation for an atheist to lie for his Belief - he does not have one.

Atheism is not a belief system - nor is it an individual belief - it is not a religion - nor is it a religious preference.

Atheist is actually the REJECTION of a belief in a "god"

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Strictly speaking an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in someone else's favorite deity although he believes in his own favorite deity. The French Catholics invented the word "atheist" to curse the French Protestants because the Protestants had rejected the Catholic church. Theoretically they both believed in the same ethnocentric Jewish religious fairy tale but they had different rituals to express their beliefs.

If a person believes in the slug worm god TutuBluto who lives in the Sombrero Galaxy will religious fanatics respect him for believing in God or will they say that he's a fruitcake and want to burn him at the stake?

[ThomM]

Strictly speaking an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in someone else's favorite deity although he believes in his own favorite deity. The French Catholics invented the word "atheist" to curse the French Protestants because the Protestants had rejected the Catholic church. Theoretically they both believed in the same ethnocentric Jewish religious fairy tale but they had different rituals to express their beliefs.

If a person believes in the slug worm god TutuBluto who lives in the Sombrero Galaxy will religious fanatics respect him for believing in God or will they say that he's a fruitcake and want to burn him at the stake?

Sorry - but the word "ATHEIST" actually refers to a person who doesn't accept the existence of ANY deities.

The word origin is Greek - Atheos - from about the 5th century BCE- and literally means "no gods". The word actually appears in an Epistle on a third Century CE Papyrus. So the word origin is MUCH older than your claim about the French Catholics.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Got a link?

[ignoramus]

It's a simple Greek word literally meaning "no god". Make of it what you like.
The letter "a" is used in many everyday Greek words to imply the opposite of.

[Esquilax]

The original page is filled with comments, hundreds of them, all mindlessly parroting “amen^ like some glaze-eyed remake of The Stepford Wives or something. It takes on a comic flavour with the appearance of the occasional mocking comment; all those “amen“s then seem to agree with them.

I read something once about a guy who would make a game of slipping into that kind of call and response facebook thread early on and post something really suspect before the inevitable deluge of "amen"s. He had tons of screenshots from people who just didn't bother reading what was above them, and had thus accidentally agreed to all kinds of things. The most tame was a simple "I am your god now!"

It was kind of awesome, seeing the thoughtlessness of the religious worship machine laid out so bluntly.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

The original page is filled with comments, hundreds of them, all mindlessly parroting “amen^ like some glaze-eyed remake of The Stepford Wives or something. It takes on a comic flavour with the appearance of the occasional mocking comment; all those “amen“s then seem to agree with them.

I read something once about a guy who would make a game of slipping into that kind of call and response facebook thread early on and post something really suspect before the inevitable deluge of "amen"s. He had tons of screenshots from people who just didn't bother reading what was above them, and had thus accidentally agreed to all kinds of things. The most tame was a simple "I am your god now!"

It was kind of awesome, seeing the thoughtlessness of the religious worship machine laid out so bluntly.

I bet a lot of Christians would say that they wouldn't have done that had they been in that sex position.

[Mister Agenda]

Oh, I've encountered some real liars for Jesus in RL and online.

Two I remember in particular:

One claimed that he saw a missionary in Africa hold up a bible when someone tried to shoot him and the bullets magically . . . I mean "miraculously" changed direction and missed.

Another claimed that he was at a faith healers and witnessed someone's leg grow longer - not grow back, but grow longer to match the other leg.

The thing is, there are people who fall for these obviously bullshit stories.

The leg-lengthening bit is an old faith healer trick, parlor magic.

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In any case, "I knew a couple of Christians once" is a gross misrepresentation of what I said (assuming the retort was directed at me), thus ironically reinforcing the theme of this thread. Perhaps I ought to reiterate the part where I said they are friends of mine, very old friends at that; they were the ones who got my Sam and I together. They're gonna love reading this.

No, just making a GENERALIZED point. How does it feel?

Really familiar, now that you're back. Hey, ronedee!

What [is] a GROSS misrepresentation.... is that ALL Christians lie.

SOME Christians lie about experiences relating to their Christianity.

Actually, to be perfectly honest, all men lie. There's some generalized truth for you.

No kidding.

... but, it's a childish lie on the part of anti's to continually make broad, sweeping statements (not just in this thread) about ALL Christians, and especially Catholics.

What was especially Catholic about what was said on this thread up to this point? Was the bus driver a Catholic? It wasn't apparent from the post. And I'm not seeing a claim that all Christians do this, which would be an important piece of evidence for your claim that the posters are generalizing unfairly.

When [you know] in fact it does not represent the vast majority of the community. As a matter of fact, it more resembles your figures here: one, three... "a couple". NOT BILLIONS! Or, even millions.

Swapping these sorts of stories was pretty much universal among the Pentecostal churches I grew up in. Last time I was home, my dad was telling me about the leg-lengthening thing, that's how I first heard about it. I can step into any United Pentecostal church and hear stories about resurrections in Africa, amputated legs growing back before your eyes in South America, and so on. It's not billions...but it likely IS millions. That sort of thing doesn't take true deceitfulness, though, just a willingness to accept stories uncritically as long as the person telling them shares your religion and the story matches your beliefs.

It doesn't matter to you, or anyone here that "most" Christians go about the world doing good, and helping their fellow humans.... atheists included! Because being hated isn't a deal breaker for them. They love, and do good; for goods sake.

Most Christians are good, decent people; just like most other people. A lot of them are quick to tell us they'd go on a murder and rape spree if they didn't believe in God, though. I don't believe most of them when they say that, they're better people than they think they are, for the most part.

But, that isn't news worthy is it?

No, it isn't. Do you know what the term 'news worthy' means?

That isn't a good reason to hate us, huh?

We don't make fun of you because we hate you. We make fun of you because you're funny.

So basically, you are lying to yourselves, and to each other. In the supreme effort to bring ALL Christians down. Because you: "don't like it". "want it", or "don't need it". Well.... WE DO!

You do what?

You know what? We don't "like" you guys either.

No kidding. I couldn't tell with all that froth on your lips.

But, we do love you!

Apparently, only in ways you don't have to show. Judging by you, loving us doesn't include being patient with us, fair to us, or listening to us. What good is 'love' like that? It just makes you come off as a hypocrite to say you love us and talk like you can't stand us.

Because no matter how you act, or what you say, or what you do.... you were created in God's image.

Is that why the more Christian a state is, the more likely it is to carry the death penalty? Christians as a group aren't worse than other huge groups. They're just not notably better. Which they should be if their claims are true, don't you think? It would be a great selling point for Christianity (short of personal appearances from Jesus) if Christians made up 7% of our prison population instead of around ten times that. How are we supposed to believe you have some sort of truth when whatever you have doesn't seem to make any measurable difference?

And He deserves better. We love whatever of God that is still left. No matter how small. No matter how hidden. Its still there. That's our real "motive". To find Him in EVERYTHING! Ironically, even [in] an atheist forum.

So it's not US you love at all, just some 'God bit' you think is floating in us somewhere. What good is that kind of love? If I love someone, I actually love that person. That's love you can take to the bank.

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Personally I don't think most xtians are lying when they tell you what justifies their beliefs. It is common for everyone to interpret their experience in terms of their operating assumptions (which they might even think are divinely inspired). We all do it (except for the invoking divinities part). Remember lies are untruths told when you know them to be untruths. Most xtians are operating under the effects of Kool-aid. They believe that shit. (We just believe different shit.)

"Personally"? I believe "your" opinion is not valid. Kool-Aid is a LIE!

So, it seems you disagree with Whateverist when he says he doesn't think most Christians are lying. That's a little surprising, but I expect you didn't actually pay much attention to the post you're quoting.

So, you are saying "your shit" is a lie too?

He didn't say anyone's shit was a lie.

If we are standing on either sides of a line...who is telling the Truth?

He seems to think both sides think they are.

So, what argument do the anti's have when they challenge me?

No one challenged you. You just showed up and started crapping all over the thread.

How do you separate Truthful Christians from Lying Christians? Its rather contradictory wouldn't you say? Mincing of words?

Weren't you the one who pointed out that EVERYONE lies? Everyone is a liar, but some of the things they say they believe to be true, and unless they're unusually obtuse, some of the things they say actually are true. It's better to evaluate the truth of claims than of people.

"Well....we didn't say "ALL"!? Is that like: "It depends on what [is] means." type of argument?

Not a bit like that kind of argument. It doesn't depend on what 'all' means or on what 'Christians' means. It depends on whether someone said (or provably meant, depite their protestations) all Christians.

We Christians are: either ALL saying the Truth, or we are ALL lying in my view of the subject.

That's the stupidest view on any subject that I've ever heard.

So what is it? And use a good example besides drinking a "Lie".

Someone who loved Whateverist in ANY way would have troubled to read his post closely enough to learn that he wasn't saying anyone was lying, that all involved are usually speaking in good faith. It's called the Law of Charity (do not assume malice), it would be nice to see a Christian here practicing it for a change.

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Lying has nothing to do with it.

If only someone had thought to point that out before you came along.

[Mister Agenda]

No... just making you stress your pov.

You should never attempt a tactic that sophisticated, ronedee. You're just not up to it.

What you were insinuating is that Christians don't know the truth, and that is why they are lying.

That's not what he said OR 'insinuated' AT ALL.

People drinking Kool-aide usually means: because they "want" to. Not because they are "forced" to.

No, it doesn't. 'Drinking the kool-aid' is a phrase indicating that someone is holding an unquestioned and unquestionable belief without examining it carefully.

So, you didn't say whether "ALL" was an appropriate use? Considering our universal Christian bias?

Get a clue: Whateverist was saying most Christians are NOT liars. NOT. Get it? NOT.

"(I strongly suspect you are mistaken.)" ...Is that an answer? Or, do you have doubts in your own mind?

See my comment above about attempting to be sophisticated.

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I can't seem to find where I used the word "ALL" so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Can you quote or link it?

I didn't mean you directly. I was originally getting your opinion on the use of the word. But thanks for clearing up my speculations on your answers.

Fair enough.

Yeah. I'm seeing now, that the use of the word "ALL" is subjective.

Again, fair enough. Glad to meet you halfway whenever possible.

But, that is a problem to me. Because I, as many many Christians don't fit the "bad" stereotypical profile that is the narrative here. And, that is my biggest gripe with you guys!

Not to be unkind, ronedee, but my stereotype of a Christian that posts on an atheist forum is that they will be eager to claim persecution, quick to take things the wrong way, and very confrontational. You're one of the reasons I've formed that stereotype, and it's one I have to resist thinking of too quickly when new Christian poster arrive on our shores.

The intelligent ones here are willing to agree that most Christians are not like the few clowns, and news-makers.... yet I am measured by them continually!

Maybe you should be more careful how you say things. It's not like you've developed a reputation for being careful about what claims you make. Many of the people you regard as intelligent have, and are only holding you to the same standard to which they hold themselves.

I don't think that is fair, or honest. And that was my original point.

And to ask in a truthful way.... What fun is it for you, and the others to acknowledge the vast majority of "good" Christians?

It's not fun, yet we do it alot because it's honest.

That wouldn't support your disdain for religion.

I don't have a disdain for religion. I have a disdain for sloppy thinking. Religion supporters who are careful with their claims can easily earn my respect.

Correct? Because clearly, its only a tiny percentage of BAD Christians you are pointing to.

Not tiny enough, but yeah. Business as usual isn't noteworthy. There's a reason why it can make the news when an atheist converts to a religion or commits any crime. Atheists usually don't make the news at all outside of the context of books or events, so it can be newsworthy when the media notices them drawing attention for a different reason. When a Christian deconverts or commits a crime, it's only news if the crime relates to their religion or if the person is in a religious hierarchy. You don't see headlines like 'regular church attendee kills wife and family', or 'former Christian turns atheist', the religion angle would come up if it was a pastor, though.

So, you are not "ALL" being 100% honest.

What does that even mean. What have we lied about? Or 10% lied about?

Am I right? And if not, why am I wrong?

I'll say this. I can't imagine going to a Christian forum and throwing a ronedee-style fit about them talking about something an atheist did. Discuss, yes, possibly heated argument yes, whinge on about how much they hate atheists and making other wild accusations, no.

Here's your problem. You say it's unfair to characterize all Christians as liars, and we agree with you. But for some reason, that's not good enough for you.

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How would you respond to a thread subject: "Atheist motives to lie"?

Or... would I need some pluralization for it to bother you?

With some slight interest but little reason to believe there will be any substance to it. I'd at least read the OP to find out what was up.

How would you pluralize it? 'All atheists are motivated to lie'? That would be a stupid thing to say. Atheists don't have any motivation to lie that theists don't have.