should america support Israel?

[Brian37]

I support all of humanity and the concept of non-violence and diplomacy. I understand why Israel turns to it's leadership, I simply do not like Netenyahoo, he is too much of a hardliner like Cheney. I will however never blame an entire population of any country. I also understand why Gazans ad Palestinians turn to whom they do. Anyone living in fear our under threat or getting punched will react to that violence. I blame religious nationalism and tribalism on both sides. I refuse to see my fellow human as a separate species.

If there are any Jews here please answer me this. Why is it when I argue you do want the land because of religion you claim to say "No we are secular"? I certainly think you claim equality, but think of it like this. How do you think I feel as a atheist born in the United States as the most mistrusted minority, when people say ""Christian nation". It is really setting up a social pecking order. How can you put religious wording in a country's laws and claim equality? You may not realize it, but to the people who live under that government who don't share majority status even if legal citizens you are treating like pets and house guests, that is tokenism, not equality.

Then I get when Jews who claim "race" as the reason for the land claims, how is that not putting Arabs and other non Jews in token status? I don't think religious people of any of the three understand how important it is to protect religious pluralism by demanding government not set up social pecking orders.

I am sure no sane person thinks Germans were a master race or that they were "god's chosen people" so why should Christians or Muslims or Jews think that either?

[Cato]

The USA give shitloads $ to Israel because AIPAC who run USA tell the government to do so ( or else).

Or else? Or else what?

[Anomalocaris]

More money for Israel, but it's not that simple. Some of it comes back here and improves our missile defense.

http://complex.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2...0July%2016

I guess trickle down economics was bound to come up somehow.

[Oldm8]

Or Else

Obama doesnt get bank rolled for the next election campaign.
Loses TV and press support.
Individual congressmen get be vilified in media, pro Israel citizens (most Americans) would make sure they were never re-elected.
Its easy Anti-Israel = Anti Semite.
If you get branded anti semite whether you are or not you are finished politically.
Now that's what you call wielding power.
Oddly being anti-Catholic / Protestant / Islamic counts for nothing.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Regional democracy vs. terrorist organization...not a very tough choice.

[Cato]

Or Else

Obama doesnt get bank rolled for the next election campaign.

Interesting, which office is Obama running for in the next election campaign?

Loses TV and press support.

I've already shoved this bit of bullshit back up your ass.

Individual congressmen get be vilified in media, pro Israel citizens (most Americans) would make sure they were never re-elected.

Hey look, Israel nowhere to be found:
Rasmussen June 2014

Issue/Very Important
Economy/72%
Job creation/62%
Health care/67%
Gov. spending/63%
Education/58%
Social Security/61%
Gov. ethics and corruption/58%
Taxes/51%
Small business/46%
Gun control/52%
Energy/48%
National Security/44%
Immigration/42%
Environment/37%
War in Afghanistan/26%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c..._of_issues

Its easy Anti-Israel = Anti Semite.
If you get branded anti semite whether you are or not you are finished politically.

Most people can tell the difference fairly easily. It's really only a problem for people trying to hide their anti-semitism under the guise of objective political discourse.

[Anomalocaris]

Regional democracy vs. terrorist organization...not a very tough choice.

It's what the regime does, not what it claim to be, that matters. Being a democracy is not an excuse for dispossessing those who do not live under democracy.

Land grabbers are equally despicable whether they are elected or not.

[Oldm8]

Cato Thanks for the counter arguments and updates and insights into American Life.
Who owns the media in USA is only bit where you resorted to non intellectual argument.
The Rasmussen Report didn't ask the respondents about Israel that why it appears nowhere in the results.
The USA will continue to stand as Israel's staunchest ally there is no wavering there,
even if they killed every Palestinian in Gaza.

[little_monkey]

I support all of humanity and the concept of non-violence and diplomacy. I understand why Israel turns to it's leadership, I simply do not like Netenyahoo, he is too much of a hardliner like Cheney. I will however never blame an entire population of any country. I also understand why Gazans ad Palestinians turn to whom they do. Anyone living in fear our under threat or getting punched will react to that violence. I blame religious nationalism and tribalism on both sides. I refuse to see my fellow human as a separate species.

If there are any Jews here please answer me this. Why is it when I argue you do want the land because of religion you claim to say "No we are secular"? I certainly think you claim equality, but think of it like this. How do you think I feel as a atheist born in the United States as the most mistrusted minority, when people say ""Christian nation". It is really setting up a social pecking order. How can you put religious wording in a country's laws and claim equality? You may not realize it, but to the people who live under that government who don't share majority status even if legal citizens you are treating like pets and house guests, that is tokenism, not equality.

Then I get when Jews who claim "race" as the reason for the land claims, how is that not putting Arabs and other non Jews in token status? I don't think religious people of any of the three understand how important it is to protect religious pluralism by demanding government not set up social pecking orders.

I am sure no sane person thinks Germans were a master race or that they were "god's chosen people" so why should Christians or Muslims or Jews think that either?

I'm not Jewish but my wife is. So I know some history that many just don't.

The movement to go back to Israel started in the 19th century. Remember that Jews were exiled from their homeland, called then Palestine, by the Romans and were scattered across Europe and North Africa. They had to live as a minority with Christians being the majority. They were regularly persecuted ( Google: pogroms). So in the 19th century, some well-to-do Jews started this movement to go back to Israel (Google: zionism). Also Jews were able to convince many non-Jews that this was a good idea ( Google: The Balfour Declaration). Between WW1 and WW2, due to the Nazis ( google: Holocaust) there was a huge immigration of Jews to Palestine, which wasn't a country but had been a region under the Ottoman Empire which came under British rule after WW1. There were conflicts with the locals ( now: called Palestinians). In 1948, the UN decreed that the land to be spit between Arabs ( Palestinians) and the Jews, who quickly declared their own country, called Israel. But the Palestinians never recognized the UN declaration. Instead they declared war on the Jews. And up to this day, they are still at war with Israel. Hamas first article is the destruction of the state of Israel. No peace can ever be obtained with a people that has resolutely declared war on you and its stated aim is to destroy your country. There are truces, during which Hamas uses to re-arm, but their intention is clear and open. And so talk of peace is as futile as trying to convert the Christian right to accept gay rights or abortion.

[Anomalocaris]

Why should Palestinians have a goal other than destroying a country which was imposed upon them and marginalized them in a land to which by all rights they have a stronger claim?