Why "mysterious ways" don't matter.

[Jenny A]

It is a fact that a creature will never fully understand it's creator. "It is God's privilege to conceal things and the king's privilege to discover them." (Proverbs 25:2)

There's no particular reason why a creature can't understand its creator. Do you understand your father less than other men? And if so is that because he had an hand in your creation?

Anyone who wants to know how to make a delicious dish will ask a professional Chef, not a carpenter. Anyone who wants to know the character of God should hear from someone that knows Him, not an atheist.

Nope, you aren't talking about how to make the dish, but rather what it tastes like. No special knowledge is required other than to taste it, which many atheists have done.

I often hear atheists talking about the character of God when they don't even believe in God. They speak as if they believe, with a mission to disprove God. Why are they so concerned to take people's hope away I don't understand. "How long, you simpletons, will you insist on being simpleminded? How long will you mockers relish your mocking? How long will you fools hate knowledge?" (Proverbs 1:22)

Why try to enlighten you? Because you are here and you are lacking in knowledge. The bolded parts of Proverbs say it all. The goal is not to take all hope away merely to ground you in reality.

We live in a Great Controversy between good and evil. The little children dying, people killing each other and all the evil things in this world is the work of the fallen angels, not God's. "God hates wickedness and the suffering" - Isaiah 55:8, but “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19). God has to let the Devil play it out his plan to serve as an example to the entire universe that only by God's Law of Love there is peace and harmony in the entire universe. Then when he returns to take us home "sin will never rise again" (Nahum 1:9).

The necessity of inventing the devil is a consequence of inventing god. But rather than blame the devil, wouldn't it be better to take responsibility for what we do directly? That is what happens when you believe in neither god nor the devil.

There is much to say about the misunderstanding of an eternal hell. It is against the character of God and it is not what the bible teaches. Many religions misinterpret this topic, but the bible is very clear that "the wicked will die. The Lord's enemies are like flowers in a field -- they will disappear like smoke." (Psalms 37:20).

There's a reason so many "misinterpret" the Bible in this way.

And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell. . .

It's amazing to me how long ago the bible already prophesied about this very topic. "People who aren't spiritual can't receiver these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can't understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means." (1Corinthians 2:14).

Sounds much like a charlatan about to demonstrate ESP, or their ability to talk to the dead to me. It's the mark of a con-man attempting to deflect the inevitable mistrust before it begins.

The bible is all we need to go on. Ready, study, investigate... ask for God's guidance. If the bible wasn't real it wouldn't have survived the test of time. "Truthful words stand the test of time, but lies are soon exposed." (Proverbs 12:19)

Especially if propped up by laws, wars, and suppressing everything that disagrees with it right? Even so much of the Bible has proved demonstrably false.

[alexwenzel]

Facts are demonstrated, not merely asserted.

The bible does hold hundreds of facts that can be seen and proven and tested through science, prophecies and archeology.

And let me guess, anyone who has a differing opinion of god than yours doesn't truly know him?

Sorry, your guess was not correct. If you have a honest opinion about God you must first believe Him.

Classy bible verse, but ignoring that childish jab, what's hopeful about believing in something that's false?

It feels false to you because God might be waiting for the right time to revealed you the truth or you are ignoring Him by your own free will.

And we can speak about the character of god in the same hypothetical way we can speak about the character of Darth Vader. Don't be stupid.

You may, but it just sounds like you are angry with God. And if you are not angry with God, what is the purpose of it? Hurt and disappoint other people who believes in God?

Being a dick to prove a passive aggressive point about how great you are is still being a dick.

Hard to reply to this one because I was never implied how great I am. Your response did not have any connection with my quote.

Why is your opinion more valid than theirs?

My opinion is only a jump start for better investigation by others. No one should put their trust on someone's opinion. Our trust should be only in God's word.

Oh, the bible has a contingency plan to wave away and silence any dissent? "They just don't get it, man. Don't listen to them." Shocker. :roll eyes:

The bible does has the answer to everything. "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It does NOT silence any dissent only warns us about it.

It's almost as if the entire book was a coldly calculated psychological pressure cooker written up by semi-literate bronze age mystics with an underhanded aim to compel belief through trickery!

Let's not forget that these "semi-literate bronze age mystics" were separated by thousands of years apart, language, distance, culture, no technology or easy means of communication. Yet they were still able to compile the worlds best seller . Hum... could it be that they were very intelectual or could it be a higher power working behind them?

Thank you for your reply. I enjoyed reading your point of view. :-)

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Alex, there's a lot of points I'd have responded to in the above but I'm sure Esquilax will respond in due course.

However, regarding your point about being angry with god. This is false. It's impossible to be angry with something that doesn't exist.

It's actually a parody of your own beliefs, nothing more.

When we criticise or laugh at your beliefs, we are not doing the same to you, personally. Beliefs are not sacrosanct. Indeed, religious beliefs are simply ideas, and ideas are not above ridicule or criticism.

[alexwenzel]

The bible is all we need to go on. Ready, study, investigate... ask for God's guidance.

Been there, done that. Your gawd must have been guiding me to not believing in him.

God gave you the free will not to believe or follow him. He won't hate you for that, it's your own choice and respects that

If the bible wasn't real it wouldn't have survived the test of time.

Pure, unadulterated bullshit. Being old doesn't make it true, especially when you have a huge religiopolitical organization propping it up throughout history.

It is not just old... all the writings were separated by thousands of years apart, language, distance, culture, no technology or easy means of communication. Yet they were still able to compile the worlds best seller Clap. Hum... could it be that they were very intelectual or could it be a higher power working behind them?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Hum... could it be that they were very intelectual or could it be a higher power working behind them?

False dichotomy.

[alexwenzel]

Alex, there's a lot of points I'd have responded to in the above but I'm sure Esquilax will respond in due course.

However, regarding your point about being angry with god. This is false. It's impossible to be angry with something that doesn't exist.

It's actually a parody of your own beliefs, nothing more.

When we criticise or laugh at your beliefs, we are not doing the same to you, personally. Beliefs are not sacrosanct. Indeed, religious beliefs are simply ideas, and ideas are not above ridicule or criticism.

I agree that you are not angry with God. That was my exact point. :-)

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Alex, there's a lot of points I'd have responded to in the above but I'm sure Esquilax will respond in due course.

However, regarding your point about being angry with god. This is false. It's impossible to be angry with something that doesn't exist.

It's actually a parody of your own beliefs, nothing more.

When we criticise or laugh at your beliefs, we are not doing the same to you, personally. Beliefs are not sacrosanct. Indeed, religious beliefs are simply ideas, and ideas are not above ridicule or criticism.

I agree that you are not angry with God. That was my exact point. :-)

Well forgive me but I fail to see what the point was, then. We use the own logical inconsistencies in your beliefs to decompile and critique them.

[LastPoet]

I am... so tired of all the bullshit...

[CindysRain]

You're right, they don't matter.

But, when you are taught from birth to have blind faith, never question, and defend no-matter-what, it is crazy hard to break away from that thought process.

Sometimes I think it's better to just acknowledge you're at an impasse, rather than waste time trying to change each other's minds.

[Ravenshire]

Hum... could it be that they were very intelectual or could it be a higher power working behind them?

Or, could it be the huge religiopolitical organization propping it up, today as it has been doing so throughout history.

Also, If being the best selling book of all time makes it true the Micheal Jackson must be the greatest musical artist of all time then, eh?