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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 1:08 am
God the op is such a hit-and-run poster. Answer my damn questions already!
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 4:37 am
So op is this a hit-and-run?
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 11:16 am
(October 7, 2014 at 6:32 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (October 7, 2014 at 10:53 am)Lek Wrote: Read the bible and see how we are supposed to act toward our fellow men and women as christians. Read the words of Jesus. That's the standard by which we are to live.
..
If a person doesn't live by these standards, then that person is not following Christ, whether they call themselves christians or not.
Wait, so it's works and not faith?
Oddly, the majority of Christians I've encountered claim the exact opposite.
It depends on your context. If you're talking about how you're supposed to behave, Christians look to Christ. If you're talking about how you actually get into heaven, then they bring out a different set of criteria. I've mentioned before that the Christian god incentivizes the wrong things. What he wants you to do and how you are actually rewarded and punished are not even remotely in sync.
This is handwaved by apologists saying that if you "really loved" Jesus, you would follow his teachings, and they try to link the two together a bit more tightly. That, and/or they'll try to adjust the definition of repentance to force works into the equation while simultaneously saying that this doesn't count as works. Because being saved by grace is super important to them, despite the fact that their just world hypothesis doesn't actually let them believe it.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 11:45 am
Like others before me, I do know a few xtians in real life. And I agree that they are nice, charitable people who would never condone any of the hateful exhortations in this hateful book; but that's largely because they've never read it. It wasn't until I entered the online world that I encountered xtians who actively defend this shit.
But none of that even matters, because it's not the people with whom I have an issue, by and large; it's the doctrine to which they subscribe and which has been the point of this thread. See, it's a common bait and switch tactic, to change the subject of discussion from the dogma to the personal. I have known xtians who are and were slimy, manipulative arseholes; but they would be slimy, manipulative arseholes even if they weren't xtians. The religion simply makes it easier. There are loopholes big enough to drive an iron chariot through, that can be used to excuse their shitty behaviour. And it's worth noting that none of the gods supposedly involved ever seem to have anything to say about it.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 1:25 pm
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2014 at 1:27 pm by Lek.)
(October 9, 2014 at 11:45 am)Stimbo Wrote: Like others before me, I do know a few xtians in real life. And I agree that they are nice, charitable people who would never condone any of the hateful exhortations in this hateful book; but that's largely because they've never read it. It wasn't until I entered the online world that I encountered xtians who actively defend this shit.
But none of that even matters, because it's not the people with whom I have an issue, by and large; it's the doctrine to which they subscribe and which has been the point of this thread. See, it's a common bait and switch tactic, to change the subject of discussion from the dogma to the personal. I have known xtians who are and were slimy, manipulative arseholes; but they would be slimy, manipulative arseholes even if they weren't xtians. The religion simply makes it easier. There are loopholes big enough to drive an iron chariot through, that can be used to excuse their shitty behaviour. And it's worth noting that none of the gods supposedly involved ever seem to have anything to say about it.
I'm not pulling and bait and switch. I was responding to remarks about christians. I still maintain that our view of all this stuff that has been brought out about God's actions is based on different perspectives. God created all of us with the purpose of being with him for eternity. This world is all messed up and we all die one way or another. If God would reach down and burn up all these ISIS guys who are causing atrocities would you complain? No matter how we die, anyone who seeks after God will spend eternity with him. That's what we live for. I'm sorry that you don't like what he's done over time, but he's the creator and he can deal with his creation as he chooses. He sacrificed his son to atone for the sins of all of us because he loves us all. He made it possible for everyone to have eternal life with him--even those he violently wiped out. Since the sin of Adam, the world is not a nice place, but he's going to take us out of it. I'm not going to claim to be a christian and then pretend that the old testament doesn't exist. You've chosen not to believe in him, and that's your prerogative, but if I claim to be a christian, I must accept the God of the old testament as well as the God of the new testament. We must take God as a whole. That's just the way it is. Those were the actions of a loving and just God who wants all to be saved. People are quick to blame God, but won't take any blame upon themselves. Actions have major consequences with God, but the reward is great. You all need also need to read the new testament and view the whole story and then make your judgments.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 1:28 pm
Lek, preaching at us isn't going to make us believe you any more readily. Prove your god first, then we can talk.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 1:30 pm
They never see that.
They have no evidence. Preaching their bullshit is their whole act.
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 1:51 pm
(October 9, 2014 at 1:25 pm)Lek Wrote: People are quick to blame God, but won't take any blame upon themselves. That's because I didn't drown the whole world, or order the massacre of people whose land I wanted, or send wild animals to maul kids who made fun of a guy, or killed tens of thousands of people because their king (who I allowed to live) decided to take a census, or any other number of pretty terrible or downright insane things that the OT god did.
That's kind of how blame works. I understand that you want to change the rules in order not to piss off god, but that's not my baggage. So I can call him a prick.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 2:03 pm
(October 9, 2014 at 1:25 pm)Lek Wrote: People are quick to blame God, but won't take any blame upon themselves.
Really?
Because of circumstances of my actions which I will not go into here, I blame myself for my Sam's death. It would be all too easy to blame a god and curse it, but I never have - not even in my darkest moments. I therefore nominate myself as an exception to your blanket judgement.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Horrible things in the bible
October 9, 2014 at 2:18 pm
Sorry. I don't need anyone saying how someone is trying to save me from himself. I don't believe that you should be able to do what you want with something you make, especially if it's a free thinking being. Heck even if you made automobiles just to dump them in a lake later, I think a few people would give you funny looks. The same source that you use to judge Yahweh as good allows the rest of us to judge him as evil. It goes both ways.
I have lied, stolen, and done numerous petty selfish things. I have not committed mass murder, or killed someone just to make someone I dislike suffer. If I see someone beating a child bloody, I don't care if the person is their parent, or if they say they're doing what a book tells them to do. I'm going to stop it.
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