Posts: 67214
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 9:27 am
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2014 at 9:30 am by The Grand Nudger.)
-and again, what little we know is that the state was in his corner...when they should have been raking him over the coals, when they -would have been- raking anyone else over the coals. What it looks like, is a secret trial... without the prosecution present.
:Shrugs: I'd have been surprised if he was convicted...I'm just a little bit disappointed that he didn't see a trial.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 6946
Threads: 26
Joined: April 28, 2012
Reputation:
83
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 10:04 am
The fact is that the D.A. manipulated the grand jury process in an effort to not go to trial. If he wanted to take this to trial he could have gotten the grand jury to indict.
First, consider what Justince Antonin Scalia has said regarding the purpose of a grand jury:
Quote:It is the grand jury’s function not ‘to enquire … upon what foundation [the charge may be] denied,’ or otherwise to try the suspect’s defenses, but only to examine ‘upon what foundation [the charge] is made’ by the prosecutor. Respublica v. Shaffer, 1 Dall. 236 (O. T. Phila. 1788); see also F. Wharton, Criminal Pleading and Practice § 360, pp. 248-249 (8th ed. 1880). As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11...rand-jury/
Now combine this with how rare it is for a grand jury not to return an indictment. The following numbers are for federal cases; however, I think it a reasonable illustration of indictment rates:
Quote:U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fergu...en-wilson/
The fact that Michael Brown was 150' away when gunned down merits a trial in my opinion. People that support the grand jury decision seem to not have a problem with this fact; which is a bit disturbing.
Posts: 67214
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 10:09 am
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2014 at 10:09 am by The Grand Nudger.)
If I were the officer, I'd be shouting at the top of my lungs for a trial, so that I could be found innocent- and protected from further legal action against my person by the state.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 2737
Threads: 51
Joined: March 7, 2014
Reputation:
6
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 11:26 am
(November 28, 2014 at 9:27 am)Rhythm Wrote: -and again, what little we know is that the state was in his corner...when they should have been raking him over the coals, when they -would have been- raking anyone else over the coals. What it looks like, is a secret trial... without the prosecution present.
:Shrugs: I'd have been surprised if he was convicted...I'm just a little bit disappointed that he didn't see a trial.
There was nothing secret about this grand jury. Everything the grand jury saw and heard....you can see and read the transcript. I posted a link in the other thread where you could go and examine everything. There is simply not a strong enough case to prosecute this cop.
Posts: 67214
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 11:33 am
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2014 at 11:37 am by The Grand Nudger.)
-and I've explained my opinion of what's been released. The cop got the kid gloves. It was, effectively, a trial for witnesses and evidence that -would- at least give cause to take the matter to court. It's very, very clear that the state wanted to avoid this. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this, I don't think he would have been found guilty of anything..but the mans innocence or guilt is not what a grand jury is convened to decide - and the state certainly didn't act in a very consistent manner on this. Understand?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 2737
Threads: 51
Joined: March 7, 2014
Reputation:
6
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 11:37 am
(November 28, 2014 at 10:04 am)Cato Wrote: Quote:U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fergu...en-wilson/
The fact that Michael Brown was 150' away when gunned down merits a trial in my opinion. People that support the grand jury decision seem to not have a problem with this fact; which is a bit disturbing.
When prosecutors take a case before a grand jury it is because they want to prosecute. This case was taken before the grand jury simply to appease the mob. You can't compare this grand jury to your average grand jury.
At 150' Brown could potentially be on top of the cop in about 3 seconds. In 3 seconds could you holster your gun and pull out your mace? If Brown is charging him as the cop and some witnesses claim....Its probably not to kiss him on the cheek.
Posts: 67214
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 11:39 am
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2014 at 11:41 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The case was taken to a grand jury because someone was killed and it wasn't immediately apparent that it was lawful. That it played out like an alternate reality was an effect of the potential defendant being a cop - and likely the realization that any chance of conviction would carry with it a condemnation of their entire law enforcement apparatus.
(you think that Brown could run 34mph.......what is he, a fucking demon?)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 2737
Threads: 51
Joined: March 7, 2014
Reputation:
6
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 11:42 am
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2014 at 11:44 am by Heywood.)
(November 28, 2014 at 11:33 am)Rhythm Wrote: -and I've explained my opinion of what's been released. The cop got the kid gloves. It was, effectively, a trial for witnesses and evidence that -would- at least give cause to take the matter to court. It's very, very clear that the state wanted to avoid this. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this, I don't think he would have been found guilty of anything..but the mans innocence or guilt is not what a grand jury is convened to decide - and the state certainly didn't act in a very consistent manner on this. Understand?
You don't understand the point of a grand jury. The purpose of a grand jury is to determine if it probably true that a crime was committed. The only reason this went to a grand jury is to appease a mob. If the prosecutor does not want to prosecute....because there is no case....and he is taking this before a grand jury to appease a mob.....he isn't going withhold evidence in favor of the defense like he might with a different grand jury on a case he wants to prosecute.
How as a prosecutor do you justify bringing this to trial when you have witnesses who substantiate the cops story that Brown was charging at him?
If Brown had been a bear instead of a human nobody would question the cops decision to shoot instead of holstering his gun and pulling out his can of mace.
Posts: 67214
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 11:48 am
(This post was last modified: November 28, 2014 at 11:50 am by The Grand Nudger.)
They also had witnesses who claimed differently. Those witnesses were grilled and the pro-cop side were coddled. They didn't -want- to prosecute. That's obvious from what's been released. A human was shot..not a bear. I'm starting to see a narrative develop Heywood. Imagining that some black kid could run 34mph and likening the situation to a bear charging.
Good for you. Way to live up to the stereotype.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 2737
Threads: 51
Joined: March 7, 2014
Reputation:
6
RE: Obama and Ferguson
November 28, 2014 at 11:50 am
(November 28, 2014 at 11:39 am)Rhythm Wrote: The case was taken to a grand jury because someone was killed and it wasn't immediately apparent that it was lawful. That it played out like an alternate reality was an effect of the potential defendant being a cop - and likely the realization that any chance of conviction would carry with it a condemnation of their entire law enforcement apparatus.
(you think that Brown could run 34mph.......what is he, a fucking demon?)
I was thinking a 100 yard dash could be run in 7 seconds. 10 seconds is more reasonable. 150 feet is half the distance of a 100 yard dash...so it can be ran in 5 seconds.
It may not have been immediately apparent that it was a lawful killing, but it was immediately apparent there would be reasonable doubt and only a lynch mob jury would convict.
|
