Respecting Christian family and friends

[Drich]

The cure for intolerance is not intolerance. I usually just play along.

I've been playing along too. It's just getting harder for me.

Until 2 months ago, I was more of a seeker instead of an atheist, so it was easier to respect Christians. Now I feel an urge to smirk when Christians talk about their beliefs.

Of course smirking isn't good - especially when I am listening to family or friends. Listening and pretending to respect Christians is somewhat deceitful and that isn't any more respectful than smirking.

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Interesting. I wonder how many xtians share your point of view.

Sounds like what you are a fan of is your own interpretation of religion. That is the two edged sword. It divides those who are too rigid or lax from those who are just right. So it would seem not just man but your own ego is the measure of all things.

Of course, like every other xtian you would then go to the bible and grab a handful of scripture or two to prop up your point of view. Also interesting to note how every xtian who is not just right on the Drich scale does the exact same thing to prop of their errant perspectives.

I was having similar thoughts when I read Drich's post. At first I was confused since he seems to also be a very devoted Christian, but then I realized he must be criticizing other denominations.

I am not criticizing denominations. I am criticizing those who would worship their for. Of worship of the worship of God. I am calling out the pharisees among all denominations (including my own) for what they are. That is why I said religion (ALL Religion) is a double edged sword.

[dyresand]

I've been playing along too. It's just getting harder for me.

Until 2 months ago, I was more of a seeker instead of an atheist, so it was easier to respect Christians. Now I feel an urge to smirk when Christians talk about their beliefs.

Of course smirking isn't good - especially when I am listening to family or friends. Listening and pretending to respect Christians is somewhat deceitful and that isn't any more respectful than smirking.

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I was having similar thoughts when I read Drich's post. At first I was confused since he seems to also be a very devoted Christian, but then I realized he must be criticizing other denominations.

I am not criticizing denominations. I am criticizing those who would worship their for. Of worship of the worship of God. I am calling out the pharisees among all denominations (including my own) for what they are. That is why I said religion (ALL Religion) is a double edged sword.

Dirch i am curious what version of Christianity is closer to the truth in your mind?

[Whateverist]

what it seems like to me is someone is speaking to generalities smart atheists use when catching a christian hypocritically attacking one person's religious view while they ignore other parts of scripture. Where do you fail whateves? Your not going to be able to find a handful of NT doctrine I have over looked for another. Your appeal to stereotypes would generally work, but not here not with me concerning NT Christianity.

Can't blame a guy for trying. Where do I fall? Well I certainly am not someone who is going to trade scripture with you. That would just make me feel dirty somehow.

[watchamadoodle]

That's a good idea, but I doubt that I can make my mother into an atheist, and I'm not sure if it would be a good thing. She is 70. Basically I've been trying to conceal my atheism and doubts, so she doesn't worry about me going to hell. If she says something about God or asks for my prayer, I just agree. Sometimes I suggest going to the Christian bookstore or watching Christian preachers on TV. I'm trying to show my respect for Christianity, but I find myself secretly giggling or exasperated.

No, it would take a lot of work to completely convince her. That's not my point. But if you can get her to the point of saying "well there are many unanswered questions" then you and her will have that in common. It's the situation that I have with my mom. She believes solely because she wants to believe, but she knows that I have unanswerable questions and if she brings up churchey stuff she knows that I'm not satisfied with the absence of answers, not that I think she is stupid or a liar. Its a nice detant and she's older than 70.

O.k. I think I understand your suggestion. My mother already knows that I have doubts about Christianity, but she doesn't know the specifics. I try to avoid discussion, because I don't want to cause her to question her faith. I enjoy history, archaeology, paleontology, etc., and she takes a more literal view of the creation stories in Genesis, so that is one specific issue. Of course many Christians believe parts of Genesis are allegory.

[Alex K]

I try to avoid discussion, because I don't want to cause her to question her faith.

That's very considerate of you. But why?

[watchamadoodle]

I am not criticizing denominations. I am criticizing those who would worship their for. Of worship of the worship of God. I am calling out the pharisees among all denominations (including my own) for what they are. That is why I said religion (ALL Religion) is a double edged sword.

I think moderation is important, because there is so much uncertainty in Christianity. Christians should give greater weight to common sense, tolerance, compromise, an honest acknowledgement of ignorance, etc.

[robvalue]

Thousands of denominations all calling each other wrong. I mean, the differences must be significant if you even bother making another sect.

Even if I somehow knew that Christianity was right, I'd have a less than 1% chance of still being right by the time I choose a sect.

How can I tell which one is the real one? Because it says it is? Like they all do? None of them offer any evidence, which is precisely the problem.

"What are your religious beliefs?"
"I'm a Christian."
"OK. What are your religious beliefs?"

[watchamadoodle]

I try to avoid discussion, because I don't want to cause her to question her faith.

That's very considerate of you. But why?

I guess I'm an agnostic. One of my favorite bible quotes is "what is truth". Truth and $2 will buy a cup of black coffee at Starbucks (maybe )

If believing in Christianity adds value to a person's life, then why should I destroy that? Christianity does have negative effects on my mother, but probably the positives outweigh them. If I could convince her to become a strong atheist, then eventually she might be happy, but the transition would be long and traumatic.

[Drich]

I am not criticizing denominations. I am criticizing those who would worship their for. Of worship of the worship of God. I am calling out the pharisees among all denominations (including my own) for what they are. That is why I said religion (ALL Religion) is a double edged sword.

Dirch i am curious what version of Christianity is closer to the truth in your mind?

I simply worship in biblical Christianity. Straight from the bible, no filters through denominational doctrine. Understand this next part: Anyone in any denomination can do this. it is not unique to me nor my denomination.

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I am not criticizing denominations. I am criticizing those who would worship their for. Of worship of the worship of God. I am calling out the pharisees among all denominations (including my own) for what they are. That is why I said religion (ALL Religion) is a double edged sword.

I think moderation is important, because there is so much uncertainty in Christianity. Christians should give greater weight to common sense, tolerance, compromise, an honest acknowledgement of ignorance, etc.

I do somewhat agree, but you must also understand not everyone who where the name Christian has had the same experience of God as you have. Imagine how direct contact with God would change things like common sense, and unbiblical compromise.

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Thousands of denominations all calling each other wrong. I mean, the differences must be significant if you even bother making another sect.

Even if I somehow knew that Christianity was right, I'd have a less than 1% chance of still being right by the time I choose a sect.

How can I tell which one is the real one? Because it says it is? Like they all do? None of them offer any evidence, which is precisely the problem.

"What are your religious beliefs?"
"I'm a Christian."
"OK. What are your religious beliefs?"

That's the thing, none of us are 100% correct in what or how we worship. The same grace extended to us when we willfully sin is also extended to us when we try and worship God with all of our Mind, Heart Spirit, Strength, and we get it wrong. (Because we do not have the tools or capasity to worship God 'correctly.'

Which brings us to the only real qualifier according to Christ. In that we must worship God through Him with all of our being. Or we must use ALL God has given us to worship Him. Now because we are all a little different this worship will look different, which can cause division among us, but still be in compliance with what we have been told.

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That's very considerate of you. But why?

I guess I'm an agnostic. One of my favorite bible quotes is "what is truth". Truth and $2 will buy a cup of black coffee at Starbucks (maybe )

If believing in Christianity adds value to a person's life, then why should I destroy that? Christianity does have negative effects on my mother, but probably the positives outweigh them. If I could convince her to become a strong atheist, then eventually she might be happy, but the transition would be long and traumatic.

Then maybe you should help her become a stronger more enlighten Christian.. That maybe less traumatic.

[watchamadoodle]

Then maybe you should help her become a stronger more enlighten Christian.. That maybe less traumatic.

That is an idea. There is one belief in particular that causes her unnecessary worry, and I might be able to soften that belief. I would need to find some Christian books that argue against that belief.