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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 3:04 am
(December 15, 2014 at 3:01 am)The_greatest_river Wrote: Where do convicts and drug addicts go when they seek help? They go to religion. There is clearly a very little separation of religion/state (in the US). I do not understand how you see someone using religion as a means to greater thinking can be bad. I'm simply trying to play by the silly rules and use the tools at hand.
So how exactly are you going to promote critical thinking if the first requirement of your thing is to leave it at the door?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 3:22 am
I have moved this thread from the Introductions to Religion subforum, and closed the other thread in the Religion subforum that you started, because it's the same thread, basically, and the Introductions subforum is not intended for discussion that may get heated. Feel free to make a new thread in Introductions and, well, introduce yourself.
Welcome from all and sundry.
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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 5:37 am
Religion is a dam blocking your river. The solution is to demolish the dam, not build another with improved sluicing.
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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 6:36 am
(December 15, 2014 at 1:45 am)The_greatest_river Wrote: There are many reasons why an Athiest like myself may dislike or even hate religion. Personally, I dislike the ignorance attatched to so many religions. The fear of searching for the unknown, the absence of empathy towards those who are different, and the blind trust so many have towards those who preach empty and ancient words that do not hold any real meaning in modern society. What I want more than anything is progress, but I do not want to leave others behind simply because they are different. I suggest that for who ever is interested, we create a religion, one that will promote science and individuality. I want to change the role of "God" because religion simply put is a river that leads towards an ocean of the things I listed above. Us humans are more complex than what religion allows for us to understand, but instead of trying to block the river off with facts and logic, why not create a new river that will transition masses into the concept of free though and ambition for higher knowledge. We can change the role of this God from being this male being that has power beyond into something more scientific. A being who created all that we know, through science. I will spare details for those who are interested in conversing. The goal of this is simple, I want to promote higher education, and have religion instead of hindering progress, play a new role and help scientific advancements so we may one day be all that "God" has wanted his children to become. Because like all good fathers (or mothers, I'm making it a male for simplicity), he only wants to see their children achieve greatness and to not only surpass him, but to also not make his same mistakes. Which will be what ties this religion with previous religions making it easier for people to convert. I'm open to criticism, suggestions, or any thoughts at all. Thank you all for reading.
Most of us are ignorant of most things. Don't fool yourself into believing the people who have faith in scientific theory have access to some magic 'truth' unbelievers don't have access to. That way lies dragons.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 6:42 am
@ ManMachine
When you get your PhD, men in dark suits and sunglasses come and tell you about the deeper secrets which are not suitable for the unwashed masses.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 8:45 am
(December 15, 2014 at 6:42 am)Alex K Wrote: @ManMachine
When you get your PhD, men in dark suits and sunglasses come and tell you about the deeper secrets which are not suitable for the unwashed masses.
I just got a certificate and permission to wear an oversized cap. How bloody rude.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 8:47 am
(December 15, 2014 at 8:45 am)ManMachine Wrote: (December 15, 2014 at 6:42 am)Alex K Wrote: @ManMachine
When you get your PhD, men in dark suits and sunglasses come and tell you about the deeper secrets which are not suitable for the unwashed masses.
I just got a certificate and permission to wear an oversized cap. How bloody rude.
MM
Man, you got robbed!
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 8:59 am
(This post was last modified: December 15, 2014 at 9:00 am by robvalue.)
Hmm, I don't want to give religious types a valid reason to call atheism a religion. They do it enough without a reason. So I'm afraid I can't get on board with this plan. I'm sure we agree on how shit religion is and how much better it would be if it went away, though.
I'm all for the general goals, science and proper thinking are the way forward and religion is trying to drag us backwards.
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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 9:47 am
If there was such thing as a benevolent dictator(or a greedy Science Fiction writer), I could see why he or she might want to create a religion for their people. It would end in a mess but I could understand the temptation.
As a mental exercise, I was trying to imagine how such a religion would look and I can't.
First, how do you deal with the presence of evil? How do you explain how a good deity could allow a serial killer to torture victims? The same people who want religion would not want to follow deism because that would not be personal enough for them.
Second, people tend to go to extremes especially when religion is involved. For example, Wicca fits nicely with modern thinking. Its main tenet is basically, "Do what you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else." I read an article, a long time ago, where the writer tried to explain that the rule didn't mean that you had to be worried if you stepped on a bug etc. Apparently, even that nice, simple rule can be twisted to an extreme
Third, what is your religion's definition of god? One of the problem with Christianity is that their god has too many omnis to be real. Is your deity/deities all powerful or are they just sort of powerful?
Fourth, how do you keep people from viewing humanity as us and them? If they are members of your religion, they are going to view other people as them and lesser.
Fifth, you would have to make an exhausting study of human psychology to figure out why religious people remain religious and what they get out of their faith in order to design a religion that is emotionally pleasing.
Sixth, you need to invent rituals that fit in with different cultures and that seems impossible. How could you invent the rituals and practices that work not just for a Western audience but an African Bushman. Anything you invented would mean that its practitioners would probably give up something with a historical connection to their way of live for your- also made up- religion.
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RE: Religion may not be the enemy.
December 15, 2014 at 10:01 am
(December 15, 2014 at 9:47 am)Nope Wrote: (or a greedy Science Fiction writer), I could see why he or she might want to create a religion for their people.
Who in Xenus name are you talking about??! 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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